Mk3 Spongy Brakes - Normal?

Discussion in 'Chassis' started by Destroyer, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. Destroyer Forum Member

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    Hi all,

    I'll keep it short as I am pretty dumb and feel annoying asking all these silly questions.

    I have just changed my front pads and discs, bled the entire system, and the brakes still feel like crap, very spongy and you have to really press down hard if you want to stop quickly, they do work if you press down hard, but feel sloppy.

    I am wondering is this normal behaviour for Mk3's, or do I still possibly have air in the system and/or other problems? I haven't driven any other Mk3 so don't really now how to compare. Compared to the mrs Mk5 (std with drum brakes on the rear), the difference is HUGE, about 4x less travel and 4x as sharp, should this be so?

    Thanks :)
     
  2. pigbladder Forum Addict

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    sounds like they need more bleeding or theres other issues

    what method did you use to bleed it?
     
  3. Supercharged Forum Member

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    MK3'S HAVE A LONGER PEDAL AND MORE 'PROGRESSIVE' feel than a MK5 but spongeyness = air in the system

    What MK3 is it? you should only pressure bleed VW's, especially if it's ABS
     
  4. Destroyer Forum Member

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    It is a 1.8CL, OBD1, I used a gunsons eezibleed to bleed it @ 25PSI, I am going to have another go at it tomorrow, though I did it in the correct order and used about 2L so I think it should have done it. Would you reccomend I try the two man method at the same time (with a block of wood between the pedal and the floor to ensure I don't hit rust), or just have another go with the eezibleed?

    It's definately spongey though, it feels like I could press the pedal down almost down to the floor if I pushed really hard.

    Thanks for the replies :)
     
  5. craggsy Forum Member

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    So why did you need to bleed brakes if you changed discs and pads? just curious really as you dont need to
     
  6. Destroyer Forum Member

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    They have been feeling spongy for as long as I can remember so I thought I would change the pads/dics as they needed doing (the pads were not far off the metal) and bleed the whole system while I was doing it at the same time, hoping I would get a more firm feel to the brake pedal. Also the fluid hasn't been changed in god knows how many years.
     
  7. craggsy Forum Member

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    ok, just wondered really. When I had my 312mm brakes put on midland VW had to bleed them a couple of times to get em right. But still wasnt right but worked, they got better over about 3 days. That might of been down to brand new calipers tho. But now they are sharp as hell
     
  8. Destroyer Forum Member

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    312mm mmm nice :)

    I guess the nackered rear drums probably aren't helping things though I was definately expecting them to feel better (considering the fluid hasnt been changed in 5+ years), but they feel just as naff as they did before, they didnt feel very sharp when I first got the car to be honest, but they have certainly got progressively worse over the years, as you'd expect?

    Ill let you know how it goes :)
     
  9. Dennis10

    Dennis10 Forum Member

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    Brakes will take about 100 miles (at least) before they work at their best, a sort of bedding in period I guess... Give it a bit of time, that's what I say.

    I changed my brakes and discs on my driver recently for GTI brakes and it took at least 100miles before they felt as good as the previous ones, now they are superb.
     
  10. Supercharged Forum Member

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    Just to add to the above, you don't need to bleed the brakes but it's always a good idea after changing pads as fluid comes out of the caliper back into the line and can often be contaminated, I usually bleed a bit thru at least even if i've done a full fluid change in the last year...

    Bleeding method and pressure sound fine, i'd bed the fronts in a bit more (500) miles and do another bleed...

    Rear brakes have a lot to do with pedal feel - check the adjustment on the shoes, the wear on the drums and the wheel cylinders for leaks - if the cars done over 100k it should have had the cylinders changed by now.
     
  11. Destroyer Forum Member

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    Thanks for the replies :)

    I did a full bleed again today but they still do feel a bit sloppy tbh, I think the pads need bedding in definately, but they still don't feel very sharp. I will get my mechanic to have a drive of the car to see whether he thinks they should feel like this...

    Ah well at least I changed the pads and discs, I had to drill 3 of 4 caliper bolts out then use bolt extractors. :)
     
  12. RIP-MK3 Forum Addict

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    irwing bolt grippers.... all you need for that job
     
  13. Supercharged Forum Member

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    Bloody hell!! - thats sloppy mechanics re-using bolts that are 1 for 4 from VW or Halfords!

    If your still having problems in a couple of weeks take it to VW and get them to bleed it on the proper machine, seems to make a big difference on problem cars!
     
  14. Destroyer Forum Member

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    I know, glad I did the job myself now, this way it will come off nicely next time round. One of the rotor hold down screws is snapped in place too, not sure how they managed that, it made things ever so slightly more annoying when trying to get the caliper on and those two metal strips, with the rotor constantly falling off and focing the pads out of position :(

    I will take to VW if they do not feel much better after bedding in.. out of intrest how does their machine work, is it just a pressure bleeder but a more stable flow and higher PSI?
     
  15. sambo Paid Member Paid Member

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    Have you got a rear brake compensator valve on your car?

    If you do you will need to lock it in fully open position when bleeding rear brakes so fluid can flow easier
     
  16. Destroyer Forum Member

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    Not sure [:$] . I got a really good flow though when using the pressure bleeder, the pads are definately biting sharper as I drive it more, but the feel of the pedal is still a bit "sloppy", ya know.

    It is quite possible they are working fairly normal for Mk3's tbh and I have just got too used to the mrs' mk5 and other newer cars, you only need a light tap of them and the car stops immediately :)
     
  17. Jaundice

    Jaundice Forum Member

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    iirc MK3's with ABS don't have a brake bias valve, but I may be wrong.


    When I changed my pads i also changed the fluid and bled with an ezi-bleed and my brakes are superb, it was dead easy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2008
  18. craggsy Forum Member

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    Correct......i have ABS and no valve as ABS unit does the brake biasing...if thats a word
     
  19. Jaundice

    Jaundice Forum Member

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    Thought so..
     
  20. Destroyer Forum Member

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    I just noticed today, if I pump the brakes several times in sucsession, they feel more sharp. Any ideas what this suggests, or is it to be expected slightly for a car of this age?

    Btw thanks for all your help, it really is appriciated :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2008

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