Brentacre Insurance
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 132

Thread: Rx8, 20vt swap

  1. #1
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Rx8, 20vt swap

    Don't know if this will intrest you guys. But I've started to put a 20v turbo in an rx8, the help I've received from rubjonny & toyotec, has been invaluable & convinced me to join the club.

    I'll start by copying the first few posts from another forum to get us upto date.
    I've decided that I'm going to do an engine swap in my track car project. More out of curiosity than anything else.
    I've seen a few projects done, but with no real world feedback.

    Here's some of the things I'll try show.
    •REAL & FULL cost of conversion.
    •Time actually spent working on car.
    •How car compares once finished (if finished) have my other RX8 to compare it with.
    •Cost of any engine modifications. (Again if finished)

    I'll keep editing this first post with costs & times.

    COSTS.
    •RX8 £200
    •Transporting RX8 £90
    • Audi engine, loom, ecu & gearbox(will be sold on) £200
    • 2 sheets of cardboard for adapter plate £4
    • sheet of MDF (mock up adapter plate) £10.38
    • steal plate for adapter £26.38
    • taper bit for adapter plate £10.99
    • SAI blanking plate £12

    Total so far = £553.75

    Upgrades parts costs, not required for swap but I want them
    •Exhaust manifold £99

    TIME.
    •Removing engine & box from Audi 1:15 (was just over an hour, will round things up to the nearest 15 mins)
    • Remove engine from RX8 2.30 (lots of swearing involved [-X )
    • Sit block in place & take some measurements, experiment with what clutch could work. (Time including picking up parts 2.30
    • draw up adapter plate on cardboard 0.45
    • center engine in the bay & start to cut the bulkhead. 2.00
    • Remove dash & air con unit. Was a pain, but now I've done it I recon I could do it in have the time now. 3.30
    • Cut some more from bulkhead. 1.00
    • Cut even more from bulkhead to get inlet, cam cover & exhaust manifold on. 4.15
    • bulkhead made 5.15
    • passengers side engine mount made 4.30
    • adapter plate 3.30
    • drivers side engine mount 3.30
    • loom work so far 4.15
    • remove bumper & radiator 2.30
    • crank pulley modification & trigger wheel mount. 1.30
    •better engine mounts made. 2
    •rx8 alternator fitted to VW bracket. 1.30
    •flywheel & clutch fitted, engine in place. (time includes freeing off a lot of bolts for subframe, rack & anti-roll bar). 6.15
    •modify metal water pipes to fit. 3.15

    TOTAL TIME SO FAR. = 55.45


    If you can think of anything else, just post up & I'll add it on.
    I have no time limit on this, but will do my best not to let it drag on forever. Finishing off a xr2 turbo track car for a friend over the next week then this is top of the list. :wink:

    Engine I will be using is the VAG 1.8 20v turbo, not my first choice of engine. Cheap & plenty available. Massive market for tuning & one of the main reasons was, easy to use standard ecu.

    This is the RX8 I bought with low compression for £200




    Got the car dropped off to remove the engine from.









    I'll do my best to answer any questions as I go. :wink:

    Cheers John
    Last edited by Suicide-racer; 1st April 2016 at 04:08. Reason: Update time & cost

  2. #2
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Finally got the xr2 I was restoring & convering to a turbo finished & MOT'd last month.







    So after taking a few weeks off the REX has finally made it into the garage. :mrgreen:

    Cheers John

  3. #3
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Removed the engine. Lots of seized & snapped bolts, as the car has been lying by the sea in Wick for 2 years before I bought her. #-o











    Now the hard work starts. Collect a loan of a mockup block later this week.

    Cheers John

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Suicide-racer For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Well picked up a lone of a scrap block for mock up, so stuck it in to take a few measurements.


    Also got donated a few old flywheels & clutches to have a play with. Have found a mix that might work. 1.9 tdi a4 solid flywheel (if I can find one at a reasonable price) with a 4x4 Sierra Cosworth friction plate & Audi pressure plate. Fly would need a lip machined on it to take the rx8 starter ring gear. Or get a custom fly made to take rx8 clutch. Once adapter plate arrives I can take final measurements & make a decision.
    So most of my time has been spent like this. :roll:


    Another 2 1/2 hours spent. Including picking up parts donated.

    Cheers John

  6. #5
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Broke out the CAD (cardboard aided design) to make a start on a mock up adapter plate. First plate will be made out of wood, just to check fitment & I can take all measurements from that. Saves money on wasted steal if it's not right. [-o<



    Cheers John

  7. #6
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Offered the wooden mock up adapter up to the VW engine. So far so good. Just need to see if it fits both together. [-o<



    Cheers John

  8. #7
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Engine & box bolted together using mock up adapter plate. Time to get engine mounts made, then make room for the head. #-o



    Cheers John

  9. #8
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Spent some time, got the engine centred & at the proper hight in the bay. All measurements taken from gearbox on my rotary powered rx.


    Sat the head on to see how much I'll need to cut the bulkhead. :shock:


    Some more clearance required, could just use a bigger gearbox adapter, but want engine as far back as possible.


    Cheers John

  10. #9
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Unfortunately I didn't manage to make the road trip this weekend. :roll: But did put some time to good use.

    Dash looked so nice at the start of the day.


    But it had to go.






    Gave me the acess to cut the bulkhead so I could get the engine as far back as I want. Still lots of clearance needed & then work out how I get a heater back in her. :-k


    Cheers John

  11. #10
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Most of the engine physical in the bay today. Lots had to come out the bulkhead. Need to put a bit of strength back into it next.


    Inlet on.


    Exhaust manifold on. This isn't the one I'll be using. Proper one I have has the turbo further forward.


    View from inside the car. Might not need fancy gauges. Passenger could just lean forward & feel intake & exhaust temps.




    Bonnet even fits.


    Cheers John

  12. #11
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    That's it upto date as of tonight. Lots of had work ahead. Had lots of negative comments about it. From "no other engine but a rotary should be fitted. Too "why you using that engine there sh***, put a LS1 in it". Some people do like it & love the fact I'm doing something different. Hope you guys will be in that camp & will be willing to help with some advice when needed.

    Cheers John

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Suicide-racer For This Useful Post:


  14. #12
    Paid Member Sirguydo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Bolton
    Posts
    6,076
    Thanks
    2,625
    Thanked 1,143 Times in 903 Posts

    Default

    Loving it
    We really like DIY here , thanks for sharing your work

    Tesla Model S 70D so much torque its ridiculous
    Work navara pickup good for towing mk2s about
    Mk 2 vw cup track car Tsr PAC A head , engine in bits
    Gti engineering RE2000 no1 rusty bits , car in bits
    Gti Engineering RE2000 no2 cooked engine and a few rusty bits,engine out ,new engine acquired

  15. #13
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    15,396
    Thanks
    451
    Thanked 545 Times in 333 Posts

    Default

    I have so many questions!

    Does it really need to sit that far back or is that so it will mate up with the RX8 gearbox?

  16. #14
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    It could have sat a bit further forward with a bigger adapter plate & spigot in flywheel. But with it being a dedicated track car, I'm trying to keep it as close to the rotory location as possible. No matter what people think of these cars, they do corner well. I've also made a rod for my own back in so many ways. Got in a few arguments & said I'd get the engine that far back & I could do the conversion for less that a good rotary rebuild. They are around £2500. Any question please ask. I’ll do my best to answer them.

    Cheers John

  17. #15
    Forum Junkie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southern IRELAND
    Posts
    3,413
    Thanks
    141
    Thanked 220 Times in 169 Posts

    Default

    I love the diy approach, great work. Why a Tdi though for a dedicated track car?

  18. #16
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Not tdi, 1.8 20v turbo engine going in.

    Cheers John

  19. #17
    Forum User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    95
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default

    Looks like an awesome project.

    Have you checked that you'll be able to get the spark plug out of the back cylinder with it being in the bulkhead?

    I imagine a ls1 would be fairly heavy in comparison to a 20vt, so this will keep the car closer to it's original handling surely? Pretty good engine choice I reckon, like you said there's plenty of tuning parts around.

    What other engines did you consider? Has an impreza engine ever been used? In my mind (I'm not too familiar with impreza engines tbh) it'd put the weight lower down maybe, though would width be an issue?

  20. #18
    Forum User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    127
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    One quick question does the RX8 engine turn the same way as the 1.8t as you could endup with 5 reverse gears if not, nice engine choice what ecu are you planning on using

  21. #19
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    thats one of the plans for today, get a plug in & coilpack, see if it can be removed. If not back out with the cutter.

    Ls1 is surprisingly light, being all aluminium, but sits wee forward in the bay & needs mods to the subframe & lots of messing with the steering. 1.8 is nice & compact, will sit behind rack like the 13b.

    Looked at the Volvo t5, an engine I familiar with (had a few). But it's a bit long. Impreza engine is too wide if I remember correctly. The VAG engine was best bed due to price & the fact there is plenty of them. With it being a track car, I might break one or two. That the reason I don't use my Cossie on track now. At over £2500 an engine, it's just not practical.

    Engine turns the same way, thank god. That popped into my head in the middle of the night one night, I had to get up & check. That went down well with the better half.

    ECU will just be the standard me7.5 to start with. As I said in a previous post. I've made a rod for my own back in arguments, that this can be done for under £2500. What happens after that, you never know. It will be in cost and development.

    Cheers John

  22. #20
    Forum Junkie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southern IRELAND
    Posts
    3,413
    Thanks
    141
    Thanked 220 Times in 169 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suicide-racer View Post
    Not tdi, 1.8 20v turbo engine going in.

    Cheers John
    Sorry , I was replying to the wrong thread!

    Excellent work , and great engine .
    IRISH Dubber... Mk6 Golf "GT" 2.0 Tdi 3dr
    Mk2 GTI 8v, 3 Dr, Tornado Red
    Mk1 2008cc 16v short lamp , small bumper , under reconstruction
    E39 M5

  23. #21
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Well in answer to the rear coilpack dilemma. No it wouldn't fit with engine in that position. Was going to come on & kid on the idea I came up with was the plan all along. But I thought you guys would see through that.

    So after lots of head scratching, couldn't cut enough clearance for it to fit, I noticed because of the cutting done. I could see the coilpack through the scuttle panel. So the plan is to leave an inspection panel when welding back up, so it can be changed by removing the plastic scuttle. Not ideal, but better than an engine out.

  24. #22
    Paid Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    With all the messing about worrying about coilpacks, I didn't get much else done. Sat the standard strutbrace back on. Just to show how far back the engine is sitting.


    Could even sit the engine cover back on if I wanted.


    Cheers John

  25. #23
    Moderator rubjonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Bracknell
    Posts
    41,994
    Thanks
    190
    Thanked 1,239 Times in 1,118 Posts

    Default

    one thing to check is make sure your desired starter setup spins the engine the right way before you make anything. Was a thread on ed38 that went on for a few pages trying to get the engine fired up. apart from a few other issues one of them turned out to be this!

    was a fully spaceframed landrover with 20v and 350z gearbox, pretty bonkers
    Hello my name is John and I'm a dub addict.

    My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
    VAG Documents & Downloads

    You'll need to sign into google/gmail for the link to work! (its free!)

    Click HERE to join or renew your ClubGTI membership for just £10

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to rubjonny For This Useful Post:


  27. #24
    CGTI Regional Host PAB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Mansfield Notts.
    Posts
    1,591
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 42 Times in 27 Posts

    Default

    I like the look of this, right up my street hats off to you.

    Just one quick point, you have used a transverse 1.8t from an A3, would it not have been easier to use a north/south set up 1.8t from a Passat or A4?
    I thought that the oil pump pick up and sump would be different and the turbo set up on the north/south might suit better?

    But anyway, this is great and I want to see it running soon, keep at it.

    PAB
    Tornado Red 1990 Golf GTI 20vt.... The Difficult Third!
    Jade Green Met. 1987 Jetta Coupe.... Fantastic Fourth.
    Bordeaux Pearl Met. 1990 16v Corrado.... The Sexy Sixth.

  28. #25
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    15,396
    Thanks
    451
    Thanked 545 Times in 333 Posts

    Default

    The engine sits behind the strutbrace? This is mental

    Are you going to run the dash & A3 clocks or convert it all to the RX8 stuff?

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •