20VT Boost and injector leaks

Discussion in '1.8 & 1.8T' started by Finite, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    I'm finally getting around to sorting this out judging by the oil I thought I'd start with 6

    air_charge_cooler.jpg

    Tried a new seal, but there is far too much play in the mickey mouse tinpot union. I'm going to try some self amalgamating tape on it tomorrow since large heat shrink seems not to be stocked in the UK. Are these pipes NLA now?

    I also have a seal, pintle, filters kit for the injectors, but am I likely to need seats as well and would that be more of a manifold off job?

    Cheers.
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    whats the car, year and engine code? its worth trying VW before the internet, I needed a lower intercooler boost hose for our bora and from VW it was cheaper than all the crappy used hoses on ebay
     
  3. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    It's an 03 A3 8L AUM. I could see the part no. on it this morning it's definitely the so called upgrade part 06A145790C.

    I did find some UK stocked 76mm heat shrink so I'm going to give that a go first. Seems like the hose is pushed a bit too far onto the pancake and is under too much tension imo. Thought about making a support out of a 63mm exhaust bracket with some twisted strip steel off of one of the M10 holes on the back of the block, but cost wise probably not worth it as it would probably need a custom heat shield jacket.
     
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    06A145790C is available at 63+VAT, so yeah I would try to get what you have fixed up first if you can :)

    on the bora pipe I replaced it had the same clip type fitting but the nibs the clip locks over were all worn away so it kept popping off
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    sorry I missed your other question, usually the seats are fine but they are only 3+VAT from the dealer if you're worried 06b133555H
     
  6. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Cheers for the prices, no worries. The nibs are ok on my hose, but theres 1mm plus of play. The robust long term solution seems to be to cut the female socket off flare the pipe cut the male off and use a coupler plus short section of hose.

    I might get those seats as insurance against doing it twice.
     
  7. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Well it was worth a shot, but only a slight improvement with the heat shrink.
     
  8. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Ordered one of these from Creations Motorsport for 45

    Hopefully it will do the job the end is machined instead of pressed.

    cm-hose.jpg
     
  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    pretty bargainous price for a custom part like that, let us know how you get on :)
     
  10. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Will do. I'm fully expecting them to send the wrong colour hose even though I sent a message about it within a minute lol
     
  11. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Let us know how you progress with this.
    With 20vTs they tend to commonly loose boost via the recirc also. However as they get on with age, other places can also leak.
     
  12. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Fitted part of the hose today. The silicon hose was a non starter as it's not really to pattern and lacking flexibility so I had do what I was hoping to avoid and to cut the socket off of the OEM hose.

    It's a very simple process. One nick in the skirt with a hack saw and it literally tore & peeled off when twisted around an old pair of side cutters.

    It's put a bit of slack into the connection, but moved the hose closer to the block. Primarily I bought the package to avoid taking it apart to size the fitting which I believe is 64&54mm and £25 on it's own.

    Unfortunately the noise is still the same from 2000rpm which along with some traces of aluminium makes me think the noise might be the turbo itself. On the bright side it did pass its MOT earlier in the week.
     
  13. mr.brown

    mr.brown Paid Member Paid Member

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    Let me know if you need a turbo - I have two from AUMs that I won't need.
     
  14. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks, that will be a great help. I might take it somewhere to nail this down as I don't have the time now and want to get on with the Golf.
     
  15. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Right so I have my own vagcom setup now instead of borrowing. Logged these values this morning. Chopped to fit I've highlighted a few lines, but I've no idea what normal values are. I did also fit a new genuine DV to no avail. Thanks in advance.

    Group A:'003Group B:'115Group C:'031
    Idle speedAir mass inThrot AngleIgnit AngleEngine SpeedEngine LoadSpec. BoostActual BoostLambda FactorLambda FactorBin. BitsBin. Bits
    TIME700-820 rpm2.0-4.5 g/s0.2-4.0%0-12 BTDCTIME700-6800 RPM15-150%990-1800 mbar<=1800 mbarTIME
    MARKERSTAMP /min g/s% °BTDCSTAMP /min% mbar mbarSTAMP
    117.17192029.1425.514.3116.361160159901000116.760.861
    118.47144016.3112.215.8117.67200067.79901180118.071.0161
    119.78224026.0616.921118.87168053.49901070119.280.9921
    120.98304017.641130.8120.18252063.99901170120.581.0081
    122.19184031.4772.914.3121.39284013.59901090121.791.0551
    123.51252065.581006122.692120102.316301260123.090.9841
    124.8332076.2891.415.8123.912760137.615601670124.310.9921
    126.13404094.3610020.3125.23520122.614801460125.620.9921
    127.334680109.9410018126.514240118.814801480126.930.9530.945
    129.54352078.9210012127.844960120.314401460129.140.8050.899
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    508.0918805.194.33507.29164012.89901000507.691.1641
    509.41208041.089814.3508.49184013.59901010508.910.8210.828
    510.61284072.611009509.812280114.316101360510.210.9691
    511.82364053.3321.621511.023160133.115101550511.420.9450.945
    513.1324409.223.90.8512.22336010.59901160512.621.0471.047
     
  16. m1keh Forum Member

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    Can you try to get a log from 1500-redline rpm at 100% pedal in third gear up a hill just to get a complete picture of the cars health?

    What exactly is your concern in terms of a noise? I'm assuming it sounds like a boost leak?

    This page is a handy guide for logging it is for tfsi's mainly but has some good pointers.
    http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/datalogging.php

    However I would replace group 31 in your original logs with group 114.

    But from your current data looking at time stamp 344.38 the airflow vs boost you are getting = 111g/s @ 5000rpm for 1430mbar boost. Which sounds reasonable for a stock 150hp 1.8t. I'd imagine at 6000rpm that will be up around the 120g/s region. So i'd say the log above suggests you don't have a boost leak unless it is quite a minor one...
     
  17. m1keh Forum Member

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  18. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Northamptonshire
    Thank you. Some of it was up a long hill run up in third. I'm a bit reluctant to red line it as it may well have the original cam belt on it. It whistles most obviously from 2k which seems to be where it starts to run rich with the lambda factor being almost twice what's required.

    It's a good data set. It shows bnt running within 10mbar a lot of the time.
     
  19. m1keh Forum Member

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    I'm not really following the running rich comments along with Lambda trims- unless you have a diffrent log showing lambda trims?

    A lot of the highlights you have made in the file you have put up are from short tip ins and outs. Or from gear changes. The boost and lambda control will never perfectly follow during these manouveres. The log from BNT is from a dyno run which gives the controllers more time to hold things stable as the engine speed is more controlled.

    I Fired up excel this morning - you do appear to have a fair bit more airflow vs BNT for the same boost when plotting one of your longer pulls vs engine speed. Note some of this could be due to air temps which we don't have logged - and also maf to maf variability on older cars also.

    However the offset is around 8g/s which is around 29kg/h of air which from experience could be a small boost leak as the whistle suggests.
    I'm wondering if it maybe in the PCV system.
    upload_2018-5-12_9-45-33.png


    There are quite a few good comments around what fails in the pcv system on the 1.8t listed here under issue 1. Although the cheapest fix appears to be a pcv delete...

    http://r-techperformance.co.uk/customer-pre-booking-checks-1-8t-20v/
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
    Finite likes this.
  20. Finite

    Finite Paid Member Paid Member

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    Nov 20, 2004
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    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Thanks for the in depth analysis/explanation. I am a total novice with turbo cars. It has two consistent apparently common fault codes

    17545 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Rich
    17705 - Pressure Drop between Turbo and Throttle Valve (check D.V.!)

    The DV has been replaced.
     

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