Fitting weber 40’s on my mk1 golf

Discussion in 'Carburettor' started by Golfmk1, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. Golfmk1 New Member

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    Hi

    I was wondering if anybody has got any advice on fitting weber carbs to a 1.9 mk1 golf. I have got the pacet fuel pump and pressure regulator but i'm not sure where to wire the fuel pump to. Is it best to wire it into the oil pressure switch so that it does nt pump fuel if the ignition is left on. Have you got any advice based on experience. The car is going to be used for some road use
    Thanks
    Olly
     
  2. steved Forum Member

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    Just mount the pump under the car and use the wiring from the Oe pump. Dont forget to put a heat shield over exhaust manifold to stop the Carbs sucking in all that hot air and get as much cool air to them as poss.
     
  3. Riley

    Riley Forum Addict

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    yeah,if its a gti use the original power feed as steved says :thumbup: and the heat shielding is a must also,if its an 8v,a few tend to chop out the scuttle panel and build a feed from within the scuttle.

    neil. :)
     
  4. Gareth83 Forum Junkie

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    how much do these conversions cost??

    say for a 16v mk1??
     
  5. Riley

    Riley Forum Addict

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    few hundred quid for some second hand 40's/45's,best off with new facet pump at 70-80,bits and bats of pipework etc..

    pressure reg around 50-80 depending,filter socks around 15 each or theres the box type filters.

    and then the set up/rolling road time,and to get the most from your money and the set up itself id have the carbs rebuilt,think you can buy kits for around 50 a carb.

    neil. :)
     
  6. Golfmk1 New Member

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    Ok thanks for that. I wasnt sure if the original live will just kepp pumping fuel when the ignition is on and the car isnt running, causing the carbs to flood. yeah i rebuilt mine a few months ago. so we'll see how they go. The car has just been repainted so i wont be cutting the scuttle panel out but thanks for the advice. It is a 8 valve, should i just get a heat sheild from demon tweaks or somethin?

    Olly
     
  7. Gareth83 Forum Junkie

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    so about 500 all in??

    what carbs should i be looking out for??
     
  8. jamez Forum Member

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    moast people use dcoe carbs, but on an 8v this leaves the inlet facing the bulkhead directly over the exhaust manifold

    like this.....................

    [​IMG]

    i use dcnf webers that came originally from a ferrari..i kid you not!!!!!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    i have adapted the inlet to get air from the vent on the bonnet but have removed the scuttle to do so.this keeps everything cool also and allows under bonet heat to escape. if you use a facet pump i recommend to use a rotational pump as opposed to the pulse type that i used..its noisy and can be short on supply at full wack.
     
  9. Riley

    Riley Forum Addict

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    thats a cool original set up jamez :thumbup:

    neil.
     
  10. scottymk2 Forum Member

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    rite, i just wrote this once and accidentally deleted it so ill start again...


    i am running a mk2 1.6 driver on dellorto twin 40's (basically same as weber DCOE). i did it myself and the conversion is actually very simple.. not sure about the wriring if you have fuel injection currently, as mine was originally a carb anyway (pierburg 2e2 crap).


    I dont know much about mk1's, but i can give you all the info on mine, it might help a bit.


    ENGINE COMPONENTS:


    i used a 1.8 gti reconditioned head, whcih i got for 30 quid from ebay! i then ported it, and have put a piper 285 cam on it (you will need a decent duration cam for these carbs). i have tried 3 different cams, first my original cam, made for the 2e2 carb (was ok, but not great), then a gti injection cam (lacekd top end power), and now a piper 285 cam with a vernier pulley. cam and pulley were off ebay, you will pay much more from a shop.


    You then need a set of carbs, which you can get for 100 - 500 depending on their condition. I got some for 180 from a chap on ebay who reconditions, roughly jets them and sells them. I highly recommend getting recon ones!! they are clean, look and work liek new, but are half the price. they are also roughly jetted for your car. mine have been faultless and nothing has ever gone wrong with the actual carbs.


    next, you need an inlet manifold, can be bouight for a mk2 gti for 130 from demon tweeks, i got mine for 60 off german ebay.


    you will aklso need connecting plates that go between the carbs and the manifold, they allow for some movement and have rubber air tight seals. very cheap.


    you then need trumpets for the ends of the carbs, i got pipercross ones for 60, brand new. The length of the trumpet is important, longer ones are supposed to be =better for low end torrque, shorter ones for top end power. i got 30mm ones. NOTE that the clearance between the carbs and bulkhead is very fine, so dont overshoot with long trumpets. i actualyl had to saw part of one of hte trumpets off because it was hitting the brake servo and the head wouldnt go back on.


    filters are easy, get box or socks - i got lovely box ones and then found that they didnt fit due to teh celarancce witht eh bulkhead, so then got socks which work fine. i got the pipercorss foam ones, bout 40 quid new.


    I made a bracket out of sheet aluminium to hold hte throttle cable, which connected straight on to the carbs with no problem. there are several different types of throttle connectinos on cabrs, so beware of this. you want the one that has the moving cam in the middle, just like an existing carb or throttle body. i did have to file some material from the inlet manifold for clearance though.


    FUEL SYSTEM:


    use a facet pump, i recommend magnetic as the mechanical ones are noisy intermittently (depends on back pressure). i have a mechanical one and wish i had paid the extra 20 quid. they arent that bad though, not hte end of hte world! for dellortos, you need the 4-5.5 psi model.


    then use a sytec profuel pressure regulator or similar (30 quid)- i used one and it seems to work fine, has a dial and you can select any pressure between 1 and 5 psi. dellortos use 2.5 psi feed. wire this either to your ignition (i.e. first click of the key) or to a separate switch on the dash. i wired mine to a secret switch, you will need to use a relay. the pump is constantly on, this works fine.


    block the fuel return line, you wont need it.


    INSTALLATION


    this is a simple case of bolting everything together. there a re no complex electronics like you have with fuel injection. if you use a fuel injection head, like i did, then you may need to block off certain pipes etc. you will need to take the head off to do this conversion, as the underside bolts on the carbs are almost impossible to get to.


    STARTING


    this is simple - let teh fuel pump run for a couple of seconds to build up pressure, then pump the pedal 3 or 4 times to prime the engine, then turn the key and it shoudl start fine.


    POINTS TO NOTE:
    <UL>
    <LI>you should allow extra money to get your car tuned, otherwise the fuel economy will be even more diabolical than it is with tuned carbs. untuned, mine gets about 22mpg - on a 1.6 engine!
    <LI>you MUST use locking nuts or spring washers on the carb to manifold connection, otehrwise the weight of the carbs will vibrate the nuts loose. i learned this hte hard way - it is almost impossible to get to the underside middle bolts when the carbs are installed, so you wont want to change it once its done.
    <LI>be prepared to sacrifice your 1k idle. some people get a 1k idle, but mine idles at 2k when hot. you proabbaly wont be using any sort of choke, so if you set the idle to 1k when hot, on a cold day it wont idle at all. mine idles at 1k when cold.. just!
    <LI>expect poor fuel economy
    <LI>expect amazing engine sound, and a deep throaty roar!!
    <LI>to get decent gains, you should obviously do porting, use a decent exhgaust manifold and cam.</LI>[/list]


    i think thats about it, let me reassure you that this is not a hard conversion! it took me about a month to gather parts, port and build the new head up with carbs, about 2 days to swap the heads and get it running, and then a couple of weeks to sort out the mistakes i had made (including stripping a thread, in the head, for a water connection, sorting out the nuts that were working loose and playing with the idle)


    Overall it cost me about650+ to do, not sure of the exact amount but as with all projects, always make your guess as to how much it will cost and then bung another 200 quid on for those little bits and pieces!! bare in mind, that i got everything at bargain prices and did all the work myself, so expect to pay more! if you buy brand new carbs, exhaust manifold and inelt manifold then it will obviously rocket to a grand. if you can wait a few months i am doing an engine conversion and you can have my current carb engine or all the required parts (not for free obv!)


    However, the good points easily outweigh the bad ones -


    you car will sound like god, you will get good performance although bad fuel economy, you wil know how it all works and how it all goes together (that is extremely valuable when problems arise), its different to most other people, reliable, and of course, fun.


    any questions then pm me or reply. hope that helps!! i wil try and post pictures at the bottom of this post.


    Cheers


    Scott
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    Edited by: scottymk2
     
  11. PhatVR6 Forum Junkie

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    I got a set of twin 40 DCOE's. 150.
     
  12. PhatVR6 Forum Junkie

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  13. TIM

    Tim Forum Addict

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  14. TIM

    Tim Forum Addict

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    nice tidy conversion that is mate, have you done any thing to improve air flow to them as they are very restricted in there arent they,


    could fashion some type of air box/heat shield and duct air to it?


    tim
     
  15. benthejettaman Forum Member

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    scottymk2 what did u use to block the injector ports up with
    Edited by: benthejettaman
     
  16. TIM

    Tim Forum Addict

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    not me mate, i have just posted the pics for scott that didnt work, you will have to ask the man your self! [​IMG]


    tim
     
  17. steved Forum Member

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    Note on this pic no thacory(spelling) washers
    [​IMG]
     
  18. TIM

    Tim Forum Addict

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    thackery washers?;)
     
  19. scottymk2 Forum Member

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    Tim - thanks for posting my links up! tried for ages to get them to work but they didnt.


    as for the thackery washers, there are a number of different type of seal you can get to go between the carbs and the manifold. i used these plastic ones that you can see in teh pic (they are black, but very visible). they are like a 5mm plastic plate, with a rubber o-ring on each side (There is a groove that they sit in) that seals up the connection. there a few different options, they all do the same thing. you must use some sort of flexible seal between the carbs and manifold, otehrwise the movement required/vibration/expansion can crack the cast carbs. you dont want that, and the seals are only about a fiver for a set!


    For the injector ports, there are screw in , brass inserts in the head. the injectors fit into those, you must unscrew the brass inserts (they use a big hex/allen hey, about 10 or 12mm, halfords sell them as sump plugs or something). I then got some aluminium sheet, about 2mm thick (but you coudl use steel or whatever) and cut out some circular washers (cut outsquares and file them into a circle). Then i put them under the brass inserts and tightened them up, sealing the holes. for extra secuirty i used some instant gasket but thats probably not necessary.


    As for airflow, theres not a great deal you can do about it as on an 8v the carbs sit at the back - 16vs are much better for airflow. I have made a giant duct, which fits in the big rectangular space next to the radiator, and then narrows to a 70mm pipe (have used flexible aluminium ducting pipe)... but unfortunately never fitted it, so cant say much about it!!


    To be honest, i doubt it would do much - you would be relying on ram air , so it woudl only work at high speed, and even then it would be blowing air over probably one of the trumpets. My best advice for airflow is to justuse a wrap or heat shield on the exhaust manifold, which is directly below - as you want cool dense air going in and not hot air.


    I would encourage any1 to do this conversion as it really is quite easy, and reliable - i am 18, this is my first car and i did all the work myself with limited knowledge on what was involved. I am at uni now and yesterday i started the car up for the first tie in 1.5 months.. it started first time! and worked perfectly out on a run. if you have a pierburg 2e2 carb this is wayy better! plus i like the fact that you can adjust idle speed and everything with a few screws!


    any more questions let me know.


    cheers


    scott
    Edited by: scottymk2
     
  20. luke w

    luke w Forum Junkie

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    Scott, what size fuel pressure regulator are you using. I've been looking a Filter King Regulator And Filter but the are available in two sizes, 67mm and 85mm.
     

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