8 valve engines - OEM, tuned + race outputs

Discussion in '8-valve' started by A.N. Other, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. chopperoli Forum Member

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    Location:
    Scirocco Mk1
    Some snaps of the GTi Engineering RLR1800+ early 1.6 to 1.8 conversion innards, using the 1.7 crank and forged pistons (reputedly Cosworth items)
    Note deep valve pockets (designed for use with the 1.6 Heron head) and 136mm rods
    DSC01139.jpg DSC01130.jpg
     
  2. chopperoli Forum Member

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    Should add that its 10:1 compression ratio (std 9.5:1 for EG block) and has the deep combustion chamber, unlike some aftermarket pistons for that engine
     
  3. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    The p/n on the block (orig. engine that came with the car) says it's a DZ (unless i'm the one thats wrong). I to assumed it to be an EV from the info on page 1. The year of the GTI fits with the timeline of the ABT 1800E. The car now has an ABA tallblock but the owner still has the orig. block. I'm waiting on more pictures. I'll post them ASAP. :)
     
  4. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    US MK4 came with AEG, AVH, AZG, BEV used in the Jetta, Passat, Golf, New Beetle, Audi from 1999-2003 Models


    This should help you fill in a few blanks.
    33636911.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2013
  5. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The cast block part number doesn't force it to be one engine code over another - they're stamped later:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220746

    So for eg it can be seen that 026 103 021 has been sighted on DX and DZ blocks :thumbup:


    Here you go - an EV, regular Euro spec:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244505
     
  6. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Thanks, rows now added to post 5 on page 1 :thumbup: Are you able to confirm capacities and block types?

    Cheers for the other earlied engine info too, updating now [:*:]
     
  7. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    All are 2.0L Just a variations of the older ABA. Seemed like every year they improved upon it & gave it a new code. Abit like the 02S trannys compared to the 02j....which replaced the 02a. I will get you detailed specs. I have piles of sale brochures from my old dealer days. :thumbup:


    I'm still looking for info on this ABT GTI. It's definitely an import. 84 model (build date says 83) but registered as an 85 due to us not getting them in 84. here's the p/n...
    2012-01-16_18-42-10_938.jpg
     
  8. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Great, adding capacities, bore & stroke now :thumbup:

    Nice one, cheers :thumbup:


    Yes, 026 103 373 F visible in this thread in several places, 4th column:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220746

    Very early spec EV (if that is the original head), and on the face of it, DX which is the Mk1 GTI in Europe. However, did the Mk2 GTI have two tabs on the left hand edge of the head, one for alternator, one for something else?
     
  9. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    I'll let you know. I'm waiting for more pics. I'm wondering if this engine came before the one you have listed. It's definitely ABT. The previous owner said the head has port & valve work. I think it's a good score for the new owner. :) Probably the oldest mk2 in the states. I wonder how long has it been here.
     
  10. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Ah, the ABT connection. Potentially an early Mk2 received an engine conversion from the stocks, from the Mk1 era. That would give us an engine block which doesn't belong to the car, and is nothing to do with the sticker in the boot.

    Might be worth moving this side of the convo to the Mk2 thread, as this thread is OEM + tuning of?
     
  11. R.b!n_16v Forum Member

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    got an engine code 8v: FR in a mk2 solid lifter head. Its got an oil cooler etc. What car is it coming out originaly i think mk1. Any info of it?
     
  12. danster Forum Addict

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    Off the top of my head it is a 1588c (79.5mm bore x 80mm stroke) carb engine that was fitted to early Scirocco mk2s and possibly others like Mk1 Jetta of that era.
    The engines are different from the later 1595cc engines as they do not have the extra front oil drain from the head between cylinders 1 & 2.
    Head will be mechanical tappet / shim type. Various other internal dimensional differences as well like smaller big-end diameter journals.

    Yadda yadda, anything else just ask as I have a manual here for one (and probably and engine too [:$])
     
  13. R.b!n_16v Forum Member

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    Hahaha thanks danster:thumbup:
     
  14. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    An 8v power outputs topic, from daved's epic "Mk2 8V VWMS Grp A - Detailed Information Please" 20 pager (just read the lot, knackered now!).

    The relevant quotes:


    So, is it realistic to say a Group A specification 1.8 EV was generating 180 PS (177.48 bhp) - 193PS (190.3 bhp), bearing in mind the data in post 8 earlier in this thread shows a maximum of 170bhp (from data scraped together to date, not necessarily definitive)?

    191 - 200bhp was being quoted for the 16vs, here.

    Discuss!
     
  15. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    I would say Chris little chance really.

    K-jet would run like a total dog on the cam needed for that. Admittedly idle and low speed running wont have been a priority, but some mid range grunt out of corners for a rally engine would be a basic requirement.

    Consider F3 engines. .yes on restrictors but making around 170hp from 2ltrs on big lift/duration cams.

    Look at the slick 50 boys...around 160 hp with std cast manifolds...they'll make a bit more on a proper manifold and some more head work but not 30hp

    Vw are are also quoting 200hp from plenum 16v's...do-able. .but there would be a bigger gap back to the 8v than 7hp.

    My own 1800's make that kind of power on open induction & 318 degree cams...even if I just bolted a plenum back on I'd certainly loose power...let alone knocking the cam duration back.

    Id imagine the ad department making up the sign board that day got their wires crossed...or Id like to see it on a UK dyno.
     
  16. HPR

    HPR Administrator Admin

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    Over the years there are so many different power figures in circulation it must be seen on a time line . And tuners sell engines , and clients go for the biggest number

    Most figures from articles in magazines at the time

    First 1600 gr2 engine - early 1975 > 156 PS Oskar PS
    Nothelle Golf , about 1975 > 160 PS ( also by Oscar Berg /Oscar PS)
    Spiess Scirocco 1977 > 170 PS
    Works rally Golf ? > 175 PS@ 8000 Oskar PS ( driver Jochi Kleint )
    Muller gr2 Scirocco 1978 > 176 PS Oskar PS
    Killian A80 1600 gr2 1981 187 PS
    Audi 80 Gr2 1978 > 194 PS @ Audi museum
    Muller gr2 Scirocco ? > 182 ch @8400 - 18.1mkg@6000 on weber 48
    Spiess Gr2 1978 >180 PS
    Spiess Formula SV 1978 >170 -173
    Misczyk gr2 1981 > 196 PS
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  17. dogzila Forum Member

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    193PS with ITB is normal, but 193PS 1.8 8v with k jet is impossible for rally car (maybe drag car another case). :o
     
  18. WAUOla Forum Member

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    Hello,

    I set about getting hold of a lot of Oettinger documents a while back.
    To make it somewhat understandable, I gathered a lot of this information into the following: www.okrasa.no

    Hope this can be somewhat helpful.
     
  19. mk1. Forum Junkie

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    Eurospec cast there own 8v heads
    labelih8.jpg
    p1010070ml3.jpg

    note the larger valve sizing
    valvecomparisoonvi6.jpg

    the eurospec 8v head was a custom cast ,The Eurospec heads have extra metal cast in reinforcing the area surrounding the lifter bores. This makes it possible to run larger diameter lifters, and hence much higher lift cams.) The water passages were redesigned so it wouldn't be breached if you went with the largest valves you can find and had wider opening along it's route for higher coolant volume flow.
    The lifter bores were shaved properly so it would hold up from cracks and accommodate the tallest cam configuration.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  20. mk1. Forum Junkie

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    I am surprised not to see any mention of Bertils in here :o

    Specs:
    Based on 2001 VW 2.0 / 8v
    Bore: 82.5
    Stroke:92.8
    C/R: 12.4:1
    Wiseco forged pistons (Bertils spec)
    144mm polished/balanced rods
    all ARP hardware
    SS valves (40.5mm / 35.0mm)
    BRS F3 grind camshaft (approx. 288)
    BRS solid lifters
    BRS Titanium retainers
    BRS 37mm German Springs
    BRS balanced flywheel
    Dry Sump oil system
    BRS pump 2 salvage & 1 pressure rotor
    BRS custom oil pan
    (Dynoed with Pectal FI and Ignition )

    162.6 FT-LBS @ 5200 RPM
    199.9 CHP @7200 RPM
    949210.jpg 949211.jpg 949212.jpg 949215.jpg 949216.jpg 990038.jpg F3-VW001.jpg F3-VW002.jpg F3-VW003.jpg F3-VW004.jpg F3-VW005.jpg frttop.jpg

    http://www.motorsport.com/f3/news/usf3-volkswagen-named-official-race-engine/

    http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?3802262

    http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44486&highlight=Bertils

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...s-Race-Engines-counterflow-8v-throttle-bodies

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...77483728.40866.154677244586458&type=3&theater
     

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