Ball joint extenders (split from Motorsport Kit Porn thread)

Discussion in 'Chassis' started by NickBishBashBosch, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. babbe Forum Member

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    why is it bad for the topmounts, dont really understand.

    what drawbacks are there from droping the baljoint and tie rod?
     
  2. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    babbe.

    Axel's set-up is wide tracked by 30mm, so the top mounts need to distort to take up the out-of-alignment.

    This would not happen with a standard front track!

    Dave.
     
  3. babbe Forum Member

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    ok. but this cant be a problem if you use ballbearing top mounts instead of oem
     
  4. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    OEM top mounts do have ball bearings![:s]

    I have drawn them in!;)
     
  5. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Amazing as always Dave. :thumbup:

    Who's Axel? ;)
    That looks like it's going to toe in massively under bump. I need to review the ball joints and the drop I'm going to use.

    Any track car should view top mounts as wear items, but I will also be looking at solid items which is what I think babbe is talking about.

    Alex
     
  6. bones

    bones Paid Member Paid Member

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  7. babbe Forum Member

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    Sorry i meant solid toppmounts ofc.

    But the widetracking. Will it always happen if you drop the balljoint or is it only for these specific?


    /Sebastian
    Sweden
     
  8. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    God dag Sebastian. Hur stort det til? Jag talla litte Svenska!

    It is only because Axel has fitted Passat wishbones, which are 30mm wider, that the top-mount has to distort. The wider track means that the kingpin inclination is larger, so the top-mount needs to accomodate the extra angle.

    As you say, spherical top-mounts, which I believe is a better terminology, can take care of this effect.

    Tak fur alla del.

    Dave.

    PS. Har du riktiga bilar? SAAB 96 TS et SAAB 99 Turbo et Volvo PV544 Sport?
     
  9. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    When I fitted the compbrake track rod ends (just spherical items) I had to fit them right up against the hub pickup. The spherical ends are thinner than OE rod ends so the sit closer to the hub pickup and then line up with the wishbones. Even then, don't go by visuals and actually check the bump steer via watching and measuring bumpsteer through wishbone travel. You may still have to shim the spherical ends to get it perfect.

    Gurds
     
  10. bones

    bones Paid Member Paid Member

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    Id also seen in the past kits that allow you to flip your tie rod ends, but as they are angled, i figured it would just make matters worse (unless at right-left and vice versa swap would work)

    So is there a kit out there that solves the problems without too much buggering about?
     
  11. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    Is a tapered bolt, similar to this, what one needs?

    The spherical I have drawn is a Unibal SSA 12.50 with SealsIt seals.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    If you're asking are the standard tie rod bolts tapered, then the answer is yes.
    The comp brake ones aren't, and have a larger diameter, hence the need to driil out the hub.

    If I've misunderstood your question, then [:$].
     
  13. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    You have misunderstood! Me luverly laddo.

    What I am suggesting is:

    If tapered bolts of this design were made available, would they solve the problem of having to bore out the steering arm, on the upright?

    If so. Would people prefer this, or are peeps happy to bore out?
     
  14. babbe Forum Member

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    hehe. then i understand.

    i havent got any volvo but my borther compete with a 240 and my dad did with a pv544 alot of years ago.
     
  15. Andy947 Forum Addict

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    Why bother with a taper bolt? Just use one that will fit through the narrowest part of the taper? Making it fit the taper serves no purpose, as a bolt wouldn't be a tight fit in a bored out hub anyway.
     
  16. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    ^^ There's a car you wouldn't catch me ever driving :lol: :lol:
     
  17. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    In some respects, you are quite right, of course, Andy.

    But. I have spent all of my engineering career seeking to design mechanisms which are elegant!

    I shall post a design, tomorrow, which suits your criteria, and, is semi elegant!
     
  18. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    This is one of my designs which I believe is uber elegant!?

    [​IMG]

    But, you may disagree?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  19. Andy947 Forum Addict

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    Wouldn't call a wooden cable drum particularly elegant tbh......;)
     
  20. Dave

    Dave *Very Smart* Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    Now, that's where we disagree again!

    Wooden cable drums are uber elegant engineering!:thumbup:

    Because:

    The design is so perfect it has not changed for 100 years!:lol:

    PS. Although I am very, very, old. I am not old enough to have designed the wooden cable drum!
     

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