16V ABF Intake Manifold Development (results)

Discussion in '16-valve' started by Ben S, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. scruffydubber Paid Member Paid Member

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    Great work, and thanks for sharing,
    I'm going to give this a go in the future.
     
  2. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    If any of you wondered what it looked like without the hoses now that it is all welded up:

    [​IMG]

    It's clear to see that it still fits the surrounding components quite well

    I will either polish it or get it powder coated at a later date, but for now there are other priorities :)
     
  3. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Good work Ben :thumbup: interesting results.
     
  4. MARTINH Forum Member

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    Great work, something for us to consider modifying now :-)

    Can I ask what make of unit are u using to measure AFRatio?

    Mart
     
  5. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    Thanks Martin,
    I use an AEM wideband UEGO & gauge
     
  6. bazoldskoolmk2 Forum Member

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    awesome

    ben, hat off to you mate, that is an absolutely amazing read, i am so inspired by what you have done and thank you so much for sharing this in depth information!

    i am currently beginning work on a standard 9a in my mk2 which i am about to megasquirt, my intention is to familiarise myself with MS on my standard inlet before bolting on my jenveys and then doing further engine modifications. i have various inlets laying around, kr, abf, 9a, and i think i may have to get the fabrication head on before the jenveys come anywhere near it, lol. TREMENDOUS WORK MAN!

    THANKS AGAIN BEN!

    PS. i will get round to sharing my experiences also
     
  7. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    Thanks a lot, knowing that experiences shared are of interest or use to others makes the whole thing worthwhile.

    It would be great to see any similar or further work by others shared on here relating to 16v intake manifolds.

    You definately have a wide range of intakes if you wanted to do a similar study.
     
  8. Brian.G

    Brian.G Forum Member

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    Great work!! Ive a little surprise in the line of an intake manifold for the 16v coming in about 3-4weeks, stay 'tuned',

    BG
     
  9. 3hirty8ight Forum Member

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    :thumbup: Excellent!

    Where have you been Brian!? - What about your build thread too!?
     
  10. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    I hope it's a good surprise Brian :thumbup:

    Look forward to what you have planned
     
  11. G60Dub

    G60Dub Forum Member

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    Looking forward to Brians post. Presently arranging something with my friendly ally welder at work! Many thanks Ben for your efforts and unselfish and sharing attitude. :thumbup: One of the reasons I love this forum... no egos and hearsay - hard facts and excellent members. Manifold will probably sit for a while until I get sorted with MS tho.
     
  12. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    Brian it's been a little bit longer than 4 weeks now, where's your 16v intake surprise? :)
     
  13. G60Dub

    G60Dub Forum Member

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    Bump for surprise! :)
     
  14. jonlikescad Forum Member

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    Anyone know what material the intake is made from and what weldability is like? I thought it was magnesium based, but I'm happy to be wrong.
     
  15. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    As far as I know, cast Aluminium with a ton of crap filler material in it.

    Not the easiest to weld, but I know a man that can.
     
  16. Dennis10

    Dennis10 Forum Member

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    Any more development gone on with this.. anything else in the pipeline?! ;)

    And Brian, what happened to your inlet manifold suprise that you posted about months and months ago!? :thumbup:

    Interesting to see that with this manifold, you took material out of the runners but added in almost the same amount to the plenum.. so the overall length of the inlet stayed roughly the same?!

    You mentioned that the reason you didn't shorten the runners any further was because it would alter the position of the inlet/throttle body to the point where it would foul other things in the engine bay. With the modified plenum adding length to the overall inlet size, would it not be possible to further shorten the runner length (whereby it would still only be as short as the your original modified inlet with shortened runners) and test again to see if further shortened runners and larger plenum is again a greater benefit?

    Food for thought, or are you convinced from the testing that this is about as good as it gets?
     
  17. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    The surprise is that he's been busy inventing other stuff like tyre slicing machines, and put this on the back burner instead [:D] (guessing).
     
  18. Dennis10

    Dennis10 Forum Member

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    Thinking about it further, I may have answered my own question.. would shortening the runners further WITH the enlarged plenum mean blocking access for the HT leads..!?
     
  19. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    Nothing more carried out on the intake side.
    Graph from the recent Toyotec dyno day highlights where we are today:
    [​IMG]
    This featured the "big plenum" manifold, but with a new exhaust system thrown into the mix.
    To continue from here if there were to be any further tests, would require new baseline G-meter tests.
    This is because the gearing has changed since the last time, and would eliminate any differences caused by the exhaust (if any).

    The runner length was shortened & this length can be considered from the valve up to where the runner meets the main plenum volume.
    The plenum volume is not considered part of the runner length.
    What is neat about this setup is the mounting dimensions remain the same for the support brackets.

    If the runners were shortened any further, the manifold would foul the ignition leads & the vac hose for the FPR (but this one could be relocated if needed).

    It is a good balance between effort & gains, with minimal packaging issues. There may be benefits of making further modifications e.g. extend the plenum out past the runner for cylinder 4, but this wasn't in the original scope.
    The optimum setup for a standard ABF is probably something that you cannot package in a Mk2 or Mk3 engine bay without extensive modifications.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  20. Dennis10

    Dennis10 Forum Member

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    Some brilliant design and theory here, Ben, keep up the good work mate! :thumbup:

    I have another question - forgive me if I missed this on a previous page, I read the lot, but ..did you do a RR run of the modified manifold BEFORE using aftermarket engine management? I was wondering how much of the improvement could be apportioned to just plain decent mapping on an aftermarket management system and what difference it actually makes on an otherwise stock car?

    It's not that I don't believe the figures, that graph you posted above is flipping amazing - I thought my 162hp & 145lb/ft was great, but that takes it to a whole new level. If there was some sort of comparison with modded inlet with aftermarket ECU vs standard ECU, it might make the figures clearer to understand.
     

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