2.1l 8v & 272 cam - Love-Hate Relationship

Discussion in '8-valve' started by keep it low, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. keep it low Forum Member

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    Hi, yhe headgasket went my mk2 1.8 8v and I found a replacement engine for it on ebay which i picked up last week. I dont know much about it but it but the guy who i bought it off has put it together and here is the spec according to the ebay advert:


    HERE WE HAVE A VW ENGINE,I GOT THE BOTTOM END FROM A CHAP THAT REBUILDS THESE FOR FAST ROAD USE,THE SPEC LIST IS AS FOLLOWS.........

    2E BLOCK WITH FORGED CRANKSHAFT(HAS VW ON BUT TOLD BY THE BLOKE THAT SOME CRANKS WERE FORGED,MK4 GOLF 2.0 RODS,AND AUDI PISTONS,APPARENTLY MAKING A 2093CC

    THE HEAD IS A PB DIGI 2 TYPE,IT HAS BEEN RECONDITIONED,3 ANGLE VALVE SEATS,NEW PIPER 285 CAMSHAFT KIT,MATCHED INLET/EXHAUST MANIFOLDS,COSSIE DARK BLUE INJECTORS,AUDI QUATTRO THROTTLE BODY,

    THERES A 2.0 HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH ON A MK1 GOLF 1600GTI GEARBOX,I DONT HAVE ANY DRIVESHAFTS BUT THERE 100MM FLANGES ANYWAY.

    THE ENGINE COMES WITH THE CORRECT DOWNPIPE(2X2.25IN) IT HAS A NEW GATES TIMING BELT KIT,ALTERNATOR,AND POWER STEERING PUMP

    PLEASE NOTE IVE NOT RAN THIS ENGINE SO NO IDEA ON BHP IM GUESSING AROUND 150-170BHP BUT BAG LOADS OF TORQUE,AND ON THE 1600 BOX ITS SURE TO BE A FLYER.....

    STRICTLY NO MESSERS

    STRICTLY CASH ON COLLECTION

    ADVERTISED ELSEWHERE SO MAYBE REMOVED AT ANYTIME..... ...IF MY GOLF GTI FETCHES THE BUY IT NOW PRICE THE ENGINE MAY GO WITH IT,SO BE QUICK,forgot to mention that its running a cometic headgasket......


    this is it when it was ready to go in yesterday:

    [​IMG]

    I put a 4 branch on which i had in the garage and it went in like a piece of cake.
    had it all bolted and connected up within the next few hours and then we filled it with oil and coolant, connected the battery and cranked it over.

    but it wouldnt start at all, only cough once or twice. so we played around with the dizzy and made sure it was the right firing order. next we checked that we had a spark at each cylinder. then checked for fuel which you could definitely smell on the splugs.

    then we took the maf and airbox off, just to find when we were cranken it over on full throttle the engine was backfiring and we had huge flames out of the throttle body.
    by that time it was 2am and we went to bed.
    this morning took the rocker cover off to find this:

    [​IMG]

    it does say 272 on the cam so i take it thats the duration right?

    I then move the crank pully to top dead center and the timing mark lines up:

    [​IMG]

    but the timing mark on the crank gear doesnt line up as I read in the 8v cam faq that it should line up with the surface of the head right? but obviously it doesnt:

    [​IMG]

    and here are some pics of the cam and which valves are open when cyl1 is at tdc.

    [​IMG]
    cyl1 at tdc, exhaust valve open, inlet closed

    [​IMG]
    cyl4 at tdc, inlet valve open, exhaust valve closed

    [​IMG]
    cyl2 and cyl3 are at bdc and both have all valves closed.

    this does not seem right.

    what do I do now?

    slacken the cambelt and turn the camshaft?
    also which way?

    or am i totally wrong and it is horrendously overfueling due to these blue aftermarket injectors as it stinks of fuel.
    or would it be worth swapping the injectors for the g60 injectors i ve got in the garage?

    any help would be appreciated as this is my first engine swap and i dont really know how to go from here.

    cheers
    Seb
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  2. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    when number one is at tdc the lobes on the cam should be at 10 to 2 so the cam maybe 180 out
     
  3. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    also the injectors will be no use unless you remap the ecu
     
  4. maxmo

    maxmo Forum Member

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    The mark you are looking for on the cam sprocket should be on the otherside. There is a mark on each side though.

    edit** could the sprocket have been fitted backwards onto the new camshaft??
     
  5. Funky Diver Forum Member

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    If it was a piper kit you should have possibly got a timing disk with it?

    If not, might be worth while giving piper a shout and double check the specs with the info off your crank shaft to make sure you know exactly what it is you have, leas tthen you know where you're starting from and what to expect :)
     
  6. alexisblades99 Forum Member

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    looks like your cam timing is out for a start.

    to get it ballpark, with no.1 at TDC on firing stroke, both cam lobes on no.1 should be pointing up, as alan says 10 - 2, and both cam lobes on no.4 (just about to start inlet stroke) should be pressing the tappets down by an equal amount.

    from this image here:

    [​IMG]

    it all appears way too advanced. no.1 cylinder the exhaust valve is already open at what appears to be TDC on the power stroke.

    might be helpful?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  7. keep it low Forum Member

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    that could be it, the cooked engine has the part number stamped in on the other side compared to this one so it looks like it on backwards. is worth turning it around or would i be able to use the timing mark on that side?

    i have turned it 180 degrees now and put the cambelt back on so cyl1 has both valves closed at tdc.

    which way do i set up the leads and the dizzy, i cant really remember from last night.
     
  8. keep it low Forum Member

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    right, now I ve turned the cam about 180 degrees so on cyl1 tdc both valves for cyl1 are closed and on cyl4 they are closed too.
    for cyl1 when turning it further by hand it will open the exhaust valve.
    right now I have timed it up to this timing mark:

    [​IMG]

    and in this position the crank lines up with its timing mark too.

    whats the firing order on these? so i can connect the leads the right way round.
     
  9. keep it low Forum Member

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    I just took the injectors out of the 2E and the original engine. like i said I ve still got g60's so i took some photos to compare them:


    so I take it I should just run it with injectors out of the pb engine for and then swap them for the blue ones in 3 weeks when the megasquirt is going on it, right??
     
  10. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Look for the mark on the back of the pulley, as already said. If you can't find it, look again!

    Firing order is 1-3-4-2. The rotor arm rotates clockwise on an 8v. No.1 is normally between 10 and 12 o'clock, but it depends on how well the intermediate shaft was set.

    BTW, that ebay ad is pretty dubious. The guy who wrote it has no idea what's in that engine, so I hope you didn't pay a huge sum for it, although it's at least got an uprated cam in it.

    The BP285HL means it's a Piper 285 Hydraulic cam. However, piper 285 hydraulic cams aren't 285 duration. 272 might be the real number, or it could be a sign that it's been reground.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  11. keep it low Forum Member

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    I just found the mark on the back of the pulley and that one lines up with the surface of the head.

    about the cam, thats what i thought, 285 is just thier name for it but the actual duration of the cam will be 272.

    i payed 300quid for it is that too much for it?
     
  12. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    For the whole lot - seems reasonable, if it's all in good nick. Is the head ported too, or is the cam the non-standard bit.

    Given that the two bits of marking on the cam are in very different styles, I'd say it's maybe a regrind, but I haven't seen a hydraulic version of that cam (I've got a solid tappet one in the track car, and it only has the BP285 bit I think.
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    at tdc cam lobes on #1 pot should look like this: |\ /|

    that notch on the outside looks to be the correct mark to use with the 'OT' mark on the inner cam cover, also if the punch mark on the inside lines up thats also good :)

    next you need to reset the dizzy, rotor arm should be pointing at the notch on the dizzy housing when #1 is at TDC. then set it up as per my digifant FAQ :thumbup:
     
  14. Funky Diver Forum Member

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    Mebbe the HL bit is an identifier for the same cam for Hydraulic Lifter?
     
  15. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    H or HL on a cam generally means it's for hydraulic lifters, yes.
     
  16. keep it low Forum Member

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    woop woop, I got it running yesterday after I took off and cleaned out the manifold.
    had to drain the oil again though to take off the flange for the oilcooler and filter because someone bolted it on with screws that were too long and so there was about a 2mm gap where it was ****ing out oil as soon as it had pressure.
    Now its all back together and today I ll go through the digifant timing faq to get it ideling properly then put the front on and we ll be good to go for a testdrive, woop woop cant wait
     
  17. keep it low Forum Member

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    right the thing is running now and I ve been driving it a round but it feels like it has got turbo lag because nothing happens up to 3000rpm, I take it thats the cam right? is there anything I can do about apart from putting a standard pb cam in it?

    I went through the Digifant FAQ and set the timing correctly to 6degrees and when I plug the blue temp sensor in, it goes up to 36degrees which seems right.

    I am running it on standard injectors but I have got g60 injectors and some big blue ones. i understand the ecu needs to be remapped before I can use the bigger ones, is that right?

    I ve been playing with the idle and co but I havent got a co meter yet so i can really set it up. when i paly with the idle screw it either idles around 700 or 1500 but nothing inbetween doesnt matter how much i try to adjust it. what can I do?

    what would be the next step for me to do to get the engine running at its full potential?

    sorry about all the questions but its the first engine i put in.
     
  18. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    You could try the bigger injectors and see how it feels. The engine will need a bit more fuel than the standard 1.8 lump. I'd see if you can advance the ignition timing to 7 or 8 degrees, but if it doesn't feel better, move it back to 6 degrees.

    You really need to get it on a rolling road, or get hold of an AFR meter, to be doing anything other than blind guesswork.
     
  19. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    take it to a RR, they would get the best from it and map it to suit larger injectors too!
     
  20. keep it low Forum Member

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    can anyone recommend somewhere near oxford to get it mapped?
     

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