`85 Postal Service Golf Restoration: 16V ITBs etc.

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by Steffen, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    You have a great pair of hands, and are obviously a bit of a perfectionist.

    Good on you.
     
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  2. Rustbuster

    Rustbuster Paid Member Paid Member

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    Beautiful work sir!
     
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  3. Steffen Forum Member

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    Thanks, I am just trying to make a solid built car for me to enjoy, thanks for the nice comments.

    Since we`re taking a look at the drivetrain, let`s have a look at the engine. As mentioned I got myself a donor car which also provided the rear axles, front cross member, pedals and some other bits and bobs. Main part of course was the engine, a 172k miles completely stock specimen.

    I brought it to the engine builder of my choice (I don`t have the equipment and knowledge to build such an engine) and in good engine builder tradition, I had to wait for over a year for the engine to be finished.

    Compress_20220921_194956_6010.jpg Compress_20220921_194952_2303.jpg

    Everybodys favourite - the spec list:

    -2l 16V ABF base engine
    - All bearings/gasket replaced
    - Crankshaft machined for lightweight & nitrated, fine balanced with clutch& auxiliaries
    - Forged rods and 13:1 Wössner pistons with first overbore
    - Cylinderhead ported, intake ports injection recesses welded shut
    - Combustion chamber in cylinder head reworked, effective CR is now 12.8:1
    - CatCams 292°/279° 12,45mm valve lift
    - Solid lifters, titanium valve spring plates

    Some non-standard auxiliaries:
    - 45mm Jenvey DTH throttle bodies
    - External crankshaft trigger
    - 1.8T USRT Camshaft trigger/adaptor
    - Coil packs from S6 V10 (I don`t want them to be red)
    - Link Monsoon G4X ECU
    - Oil pan with baffle blades
    - Oil pump reworked and checked, but still the original one
    - Alternator, alternator bracket and belt drive from 1.8l Golf 3 (lower mounting position)
    - Bosch 044 in-tank fuel pump, PWM controller actuated by ECU. Fuel pressure and temp sensor for control
    - 4kg CNC flywheel, Sachs VR6 clutch

    Rest of the intake and exhaust will be fabricated by myself, if anybody is interested I have also done some calculations. There is a lot you can buy from the shelf but I have a certain idea how I want it to work and look so I decided to go down the long route by fabricating it on my own.

    A more or less identical engine from my engine builder was on the dyno a couple of months ago and did 239BHP/188 lb/ft at the crank. I am hoping for 230 bhp but honestly I am happy if it runs reliably, the power figure will be a bonus.

    Compress_20220921_194957_7281.jpg Compress_20220921_194958_8420.jpg
     
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  4. daNpy Forum Member

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    Wauw, that motor looks really nice!
    You're measuring camshaft position as well? (pic3)
    Do you have a pic of the crankshaft sensor? I am curious how this is mounted to the external wheel without any movement possible.

    That engine should perform well over 200 hp, as mine is doing 190+ without the mods you did to the head!

    Interested in your inlet-plans!

    I like the "Ja zum Motorsport"sticker too [:D]
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
  5. Steffen Forum Member

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    Yes - camshaft position is measured as well. I wanted to have a fully sequential injection and therefore you need a camshaft position sensor.
    I want as much modern safety features on the engine as possiblem ,or at least as economically possible. It will also feature knock control, altitude pressure correction (I live near the alps) and the temperature/lambda sensors will also be used for some safety features to ensure the engine will not blow up because of some stupid thing.

    And because of the performance - who would not like to have a 250 bhp screamer? But beside our regulations here in Germany which make it harder and harder to even get such an engine road legal, I`d rather have a reliable 225-235 bhp engine than a blown up 250 bhp lying in the back of the garage :lol:

    The inlet plans are not that far away, in the real world we are currently working on the setup, and the first models have been 3D printed. But you have to show a bit of patience since I`d like to show things in order :p

    Here are some pictures of the crankshaft sensor i stole from the website of the manufacturer (AK Racing):

    16vsensorhaltertrigger5.jpg 16vsensorhaltertrigger3.jpg 16vsensorhaltertrigger2.jpg 16vsensorhaltertrigger1.jpg

    (And I also love the sticker :) I will put one back on the car when it is finished. I had to remove the old sticker because it was used to over up a rust hole in the rear panel :lol:)
     
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  6. afbiker02

    afbiker02 Paid Member Paid Member

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    I'm so happy that you decided to stick around and share this with us. You have put in some impressive work.
     
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  7. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Who's doing the headwork?
    That's a fruity engine!
     
  8. Steffen Forum Member

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    Thanks, I think also this forum will provide me with some good informations :) already spent some time looking through all the stuff.

    The engine was built by Jörg Dangel aka JD Motorconcepts in Saarbrücken, Germany. He also makes a lot of oettinger engines. I opted for him because he is specialized in 16V VW engines. If sometime in the future I decide to make a more aggressive head, I propably will choose Büchl Motorsport, he lives only 20mins from me. But since he is specialized in hardcore racing engines it didn`t seem to be the right fit for a street engine.
     
  9. daNpy Forum Member

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    That sensor mounting looks good and sturdy. Also expensive :p
    I've used a set from a Golf 4, the oil seal on the gearbox side with 60/2 crankwheel integrated.

    I am a bit familiar with the regulations in Germany (one of the reasons I kept the original papers of my Golf) but I didn't know engine power is also taken into account. I thought it was actually all (non original) parts separately that need to have Teile Gutachtung and approved installation by TÜV.
     
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  10. Steffen Forum Member

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    To be honest I can`t really remember the price, but it`s not absurdely expensive. I am working as a software engineer and I am quite familiar with sensors being sensible to weak mounting solutions (I work for an italian manufacturer :lol:)

    The OE Golf 4 solution is very neat :thumbup:

    It`s not really the engine power that would be a problem. Main issue with a 250+ HP 16V n/a would most probably be not passing emission test because of very rough and/or high idle etc.
    For me it is already a problem that Jenvey throttle bodies do not have any sort of TUV documentation. It is possible to get it approved with individual acceptance but it gets more and more difficult since there are and will be more restrictions.

    My postal service Golf is emission class "unknown" (basically Eu1) so for me it is still possible, but getting Jenvey TUV approved on a Golf 3? Almost impossible.

    I just hope I will get mine approved :cry:
     
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  11. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    200 bhp in a mk2 is going to be more than plentiful for huge fun.
     
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  12. Steffen Forum Member

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    @Tristan: I`d think so, too. Friend of mine has a MK2 with 1.8T making about 350Hp and it`s barely driveable and constantly spinning the tires on curvy roads. I think 200-230 bhp and a LSD is a "reasonable" combination [:D]

    But enough of the dreamy leisure talk! We got a car to build!

    Corrado fuel cell dry ice blasted, heat gun treated and ceramic coated. Bosch 044 in-tank:

    Compress_20220710_235852_2617.jpg Compress_20220710_235851_1358.jpg Compress_20220710_235850_0079.jpg Compress_20220710_235849_9070.jpg

    Passat 35i bracket for fuel filter adapted to MK2:

    Compress_20220921_194951_1065.jpg

    Bought some slices of aluminium to make some flanges:

    Compress_20220921_194954_4196.jpg IMG_20220918_192212 (1).jpg

    Also started prepping the old, warped ABF timing covers for their last mission:

    Compress_20221017_190857_7421.jpg Compress_20221017_190900_0488.jpg Compress_20221024_201136_6549.jpg Compress_20221017_190903_3128 - Kopie.jpg Compress_20221017_190901_1848 - Kopie.jpg
     
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  13. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Oh I like where this is going...
     
  14. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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  15. daNpy Forum Member

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    Wauw that's incredible work on the plastic parts! Does the ceramic coating make sure the heat gun treatment doesn't "go away"?
    I've seen people heat gun their bumpers so they are black again, but this only lasts for a given time.
     
  16. caddyboet

    caddyboet Paid Member Paid Member

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    Awesome build so far! Subscribed.
     
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  17. daNpy Forum Member

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    If I understood correctly, the longer your inlet (trumpets) are, the max torque is available at lower rpm?
    I don't know if they stay this short, but that might be something to keep in mind?[/user]
     
  18. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    It's a general rule of thumb, but obviously lots of things are involved such as rpm, cam timing, amount of lift, compression etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
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  19. Steffen Forum Member

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    @Tristan: Seems like you are not seeing this kind of work for the first time eh [:D]

    @all: Thanks a lot, currently trying to sneak on your build threads, you have some very nice projects going on!

    @daNpy: The treament with the heatgun does not work as good as with the bumpers. The ceramic coating was more of a desperate try to get a nice finish - thankfully it worked. I used the Oracle coating from Carbon Collective.

    Your comments about induction length are correct, the longer the intake length, the lower your max torque is going to be. I gathered numerous methods for calculating the intake runner length and surprisingly they all got relatively close results despite depending on different variables and calculations.

    I have collected and commented the basic functionality, unfortunately I wrote it in german but perhaps you can get the idea (one wave is generated with opening of the intake valve, the other one is generated with closing of intake valve):
    EVÖ.JPG EVS.JPG Schingungen offenes und geschlossenes Ende beidseitig offen.JPG

    As a small teaser, I also took into account the intake temperature which also has some impact on the "ideal" runner length. Calculation is based on a method from some guys working for Honda, I guess they know a thing or two about n/a engines. Y axis is intake length in meters, X axis is engine speed and Z axis is intake temperature.

    IntakeRunnerLength_HondaBase_Catcams292_3d_rev00.JPG

    Perhaps another small bit I took away from these calculations: Many people who run Jenvey DTH`s on their 16V are running way too short intake lengths.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
  20. daNpy Forum Member

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    Ich kann Deutsch gut lesen, habe ja viele Freunden in Deutschland (am Nürburgring) und auch Deutsche Kunden.

    I will have to get into the pictures and calculations at home, it looks very interesting!
    I changed the trumpets from 60 to 40 mm lengths due to the airbox (100 mm deep), but didn't do another dyno run afterwards. I want to do one to fine tune early next year, also because I am planning to swap the gearbox (2Y for 02A).
     

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