CE1--> ABF splicing of looms Help

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by Patttt, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Patttt New Member

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    For the earth to head, is this replaced by the earth that joins the closed throttle plug on the 'mini' engine loom? (that joins main loom via round plug) I can't find a wire labelled for that earth?

    When you say copy the red spade length, do you mean the one that has become unused on the ce1 loom & being re used to house the injector power/ lambda power off the abf loom?

    Or if I can find the abf loom earth to head, does this replace the CE1 earth mentioned above & in pic? As the ce1 earth is joined along with the earth off the outside MFA temp plug into 1 spade.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yes its one of the brown/white wires which run to a ring terminal on the side of the head on the mini loom section.

    if you look on your ce1 loom you'll see the brown/white wire with a red spade housing on it. that is the other end of the ce1 brown/white wire with the ring terminal, this is the earth for the dash. you can take out the CE1 wire and instead use the abf wire. so cut the wire off g1/5 and crimp a spade on it. if you use proper latched terminals you can swap the red spade housing over to your fresh spade :)
    if the mfa wire in the ce1 loom is also in this brown/white spade, simply cut the mfa wire off and crimp it into the same spade as G1/5 then it'll be back as VW intended.

    of course theres nothing stopping you from just keeping the CE1 brown/white wire as is and earth it to the head, but I use the mk3 wire when i do my looms.

    the injector/power is a separate connection, on your ce1 loom you should see a red/white wire(s) to a spade in a white housing, this is the WUR heater power feed. on the abf loom get the lambda wire from G1/8 and the injector power Z1 wire, cut the ends and splice them both to a female spade. again once you remove the old ce1 wires you can swap the white spade housing onto your abf spade if you use proper latched terminals. this runs to a spade hanging off of E/14 (rear wiring loom, fuel pump power wire)

    does that clear things up?
     
  3. Patttt New Member

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    Yes that clears everything up thanks! Although in the loom I have the red spade you mention is black?

    I can get splicing now as I have both looms down to what is needed. Will report back when I go amiss somewhere which shouldnt be soon I imagine :lol:

    Cheers for the help so far:thumbup:
     
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah sometimes it is black actually, seems to be an age thing :thumbup:
     
  5. Patttt New Member

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    Okay so been soldering the wires from ce1 to abf etc.

    1.) Now have got this relay holder (2);
    wiring1.jpg

    Which held a relay numbered 1 (half green/ half brown sticker) As you can see in picture, the only reason it's still attatched is by the bridging (1) to the main plug, and an earth (3).

    Now should i cut the bridges (yellow/blk & red/blk)? If so can they be used to solder any wires into the ce1 main plug? (I'm mainly thinking as you mentioned earlier, to splice the blk/white ignition live for isv/ breather to d7, which I think is the point on plug D that the two yellow/blk wires go into, so if I cut the bridge I can use that?) Also pin g1/7 isn't black/white as you said but dark red/ blk, does this matter? Can I splice it along with the above wiring if acceptable?

    2.) Also if i cut the bridging wires, there will be a spare earth wire going to the spade which goes on the earthing point under the dash. Can I use this to earth the lambda & any other wires I need to earth? (minus the ecu obviously)

    3.) For the fuel pump wire, there's no crimping head/ existing wire in plug d/13 as you suggested, what's the best sort of crimp to use? As I notice ce1 use sort of a cylindrical female crimp.

    4.) Earlier when mentioned to put injector Z1 wire into a spade with lambda power, I have that old spare white vw spade, can I splice the two wires I just mentioned onto the ends of the old red/white wires? I just wondered because the Z1 has thicker copper than the red/white wires so i guess not possible. Either way, once the two wires go into one spade, does it just want to connect to the female white connector that the old white one with the red/white wires came from?

    These last questions are just to clarify on previous points you've made before;

    5.) For the ignition live off the abf loom, you said to bare some copper and just solder/tape it to that. Just wanting to double check, did you mean pin 24 on the CE1 D plug? (24- red/blk- starter pin 50 (M/T) or starter/inhibitor & reverse light switch pin 50 (A/T))

    6.) I have a thin black wire labelled 'splice to mk2 black cable, coil'. Does this want splicing to the black wire that is just a single pin? Or to the one where it used to be two pins but I cut one off? (could therefor splice it to the stub of the one i cut off) Sorry for the crap description!

    7.) I have a lambda sensor off my old Polo G40, along with a welded in boss etc for it to put onto the downpipe I have for the golf. Can this be used for the abf? As I thought I'd ask seeing as it's sat around doing nothing. It has 4 wires to it, just has a different head on it so won't plug into the abf loom. If it is useable could I just splice it direct to the abf wires? Or is this ill advised? (Wires are; 1 blk, 1 earth & 2 white wires)


    Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2018
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    1. idle control for the k-jet, no need for this obv. the holder could be pinched for your ecu relay though keep the ign live yellow/black and brown earth wires, cut out that red/black which is a rev counter wire and whatever else and pop in the abf wires to suit.
    if the black wire there is also to the yel/black you could use that to splice the isv/ecu power wire off of G2/4. g1/7 is sometimes red/black yep

    2. I would leave any spare ign live and earth wires hanging, then you can tap into if and when required. once you are finished anything left over can then be cut out :)

    3. you need a proper ce1 fusebox pin, trouble is these are a real sod to remove. you can buy new ones from polevolt.co.uk, or if you have a spare ce1 loom you can cut the pins out of the plug with a sharp knoife. the alternative is to buy a k-jet relay without a rev limiter, and done splice up d/13. keep the abf wire spare then you can splice it in later.

    4. you can splice the old ends on if you want, its up to you. i buy in new latched spades from polevolt.co.uk and crimp them on as its less work than soldering!

    5. the red wire to pin F/5 is a starter live, this you can splice into the chunky red/black on pin D/24 on the CE1 loom

    6. once you cut out the old mk3 coil black wire you'll be left with a thinner black wire, this you can splice to the ce1 black coil wire to D/23 same way as the red wire above. you can splice it into any random spare ign live feed though, its entirely up to you!

    7. whats the part number on that lambda? you can probably pop the pins out of the lambda plug and fit them to one suitable for the abf plug, or swap the abf plug for a plug that'll fit the g40 lambda. you can use a thin watchmaker screwdriver and patience to get the pins out if you dont have a proper tool :thumbup:

    dont splice direct to the abf wiring, you're just making life hard for yourself in the future. plus the instructions with new bosch lambdas say dont solder to the lambda wires! not sure why but there you go. they come with a crimpy thingy to join the lambda wires to the old 4 pin plug which you cut off the old lambda before throwing it away
     
  7. Patttt New Member

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    Right brilliant help so far!! [:D] just want to double check these points as I think they got lost in translation (or im just being slow);


    1.) Z1 & lambda I have now put into the seperate from fusebox white spade (latch type i think) which previously had the two red/white wires in- Can this just be connected back up to the female socket it originally linked with in the golf?


    2.) On the ecu relay live, number 30, is this the same live that the ^above goes too? So can I splice it into that spade along with the other 2 wires already there? Or am I getting the wrong spade, not entirely sure which the 'live spade on rear of fusebox' is.

    Then that's the main loom made up :thumbup: apart from the fuel pump wire but as you have said I need to order a correct spade etc for that! (I'm assuming there's no other wire it can splice too)


    Okay so the last bit, the 'mini' engine loom that connects to the round plug;

    3.) Is this a standard Vw splice? Blk wire splices into two which go to; ISV & Closed throttle. Is that how it's meant to be? (obviously it needs cutting out and doing properly with solder)
    IMG_0956.jpg

    4.) I take it I'm missing the closed throttle plug head off these wires then? :L (would there possibly be any old plug heads i've cut off unwanted wiring, that could be used for this? Albeit with the guide plastic 'rails' on the plug filed down so it fits)
    IMG_0952.jpg

    5.) What is this connector? It's one of two sockets on the whole loom the previous owner had labelled, it's laballed 'dash?' which it surely can't be if it's on engine loom...?
    IMG_0954.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2018
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    1) yup thats the idea :)
    2) no this needs a permenent live, look on the back of your fusebox you'll see lots of spades. permenent live is the side with the 2 chunky red wires with huge spades on, cant miss it

    pump wire do you mean d/13? if so as i say you can leave this for now and use a k-jet pump relay, just have to make sure it has no rev counter. if you have good crimping tools the pin you need is this one:
    http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/Terminals_for_Special_Applications.html
    BMW/VW/Ford female Terminal. L20.3 x 3.0mm O/dia.

    3) yeah vw dont use solder to join wires, they have some uber crimp that crushes all the wires together. the black wire goes to the isv and the breather heater plug which has a black and brown wire ;)
    breather heater you can cut out as its unused. you'll find the other brown wire from breather heater runs to a ring terminal on the side of the head along with all the engine sensors.

    4) follow the wires further down untill you can see what colour the wires were originally. you might find the old carbon canister plug fits :thumbup:

    5) speedo sensor for digital cluster
     
  9. Patttt New Member

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    Relay no.2 (No rev-limiter) is that the one? Although having said that the cheapest one on ebay is 20 [:|] So I think I'll be going with the crimp to plug D!

    Also for the permanent live 30 on ecu relay, I take it that it doesn't matter which of the two seperate live spades I use, so can I use the method you've said to do before of baring some copper, then soldering the ecu live wire around the thick live cable?

    Righto! So I'll bin breather heater/ speedo sensor for digital cluster.

    I'm abit worried about who's previously labelled these now as I was going off those, and you've said it's different to what they've put. Having now looked at the loom properly, they've labelled these the following;

    1.) ISV (just double checking) - A black & a white wire
    IMG_0957.jpg

    2.) 2 pin- grn/brown & white/brown
    IMG_0961.jpg

    3.) Dizzy (i think this is correct, looks same as old dizzy plug) - 3 pin- blk/red & blu/grn & brown/white
    IMG_0962.jpg

    4.) Pot sensor- 3 pin - red/white & red/grey & brown/white
    IMG_0963.jpg

    5.) Breather heater (labelled closed throttle- just double checking with this one) - 2 pin - A black & a brown wire.
    IMG_0964.jpg

    6.) Open throttle- yellow/grey & white/brown


    Along with these mentioned above I then have:-

    -the speedo sensor for digi cluster
    -Injector plug
    -high & low oil pressure plugs
    -MFA oil temp plug
    -coolant temp plug

    Is there anything missing?

    Cheers :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2018
  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    gsf do it:
    935VG0090 k-jet relay without limiter 23.20

    no, just crimp a std female spade on the live wire, then pop into one of the spare male spades on the fusebox. if you splice that means the loom wont be removable any more without cutting of the wire you spliced ;)

    1) yep

    2) ecu temp, to white 2 pin sensor on head

    3) yep

    4) TPS, 3 pin on throttle body

    5) breather heater -> bin

    6) yep thats the idle switch

    aye that everything :thumbup:
     
  11. Patttt New Member

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    You sir are a legend! Just waiting on my crimps now from polevolt then can hopefully get it started (albeit for a few seconds until immob cuts in, haven't been to the scrappy for that wiring yet!)

    Just out of interest, which do you use on your abf? The non-rev limiter relay or the "blu/yellow fuel pump relay earth trigger to d/13"?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the d/13 pin, as thats what VW would have done ;)
    either way is fine, just a case of can you get a d/13 pin or not! as i say you can cut one out of a donor ce1 loom with a sharp knife, this is what i used to do before i got proper terminal tools/found the right pins on polevolt
     
  13. Patttt New Member

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    Been trying to find a picture of someone's Idle switch wiring on the abf, can't seem to find one clear enough to show which way round the wires go into the switch! Seeing as it didn't have a switch on mine I have nothing to go off. On yours, with the plug's 1 face without the metal clip on, with the cutout in the plastic (facing upwards), is the grey/yellow wire on the left or right? :/
     
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    it doesnt matter, its just on/off switch :)
     
  15. Patttt New Member

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    Ah okay brilliant. In the ****ing down rain in an upside down scrapped mk3 semi auto golf I managed to source the immob wiring, but someone had already pinched the fusebox so all plugs to the jumper block for vagcom & immob are gone :( Does this mean I can't link up the grey wire off the immob?


    Also I got what I assume is the vag-com port from behind a little sliding port next to ciggy lighter.

    wire colours being;

    grey/white- ??
    Yellow- ??
    Red/white- ??
    Brown- earth to ciggy lighter
     
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    thats the one, if the ends are cut it just means you wont be able to link it up as per factory. you have options, either get another one from scrappy, splice it all together or make up your own plugs to join them.

    if you splice it all together this just means you have more plugs to push thru the hole in the bulkhead.

    red/white - live (ciggy lighter, or splice to the live spade for ecu relay)
    brown - earth (ciggy lighter, or splice to one of the brown wires on engine loom)
    grey/white - diagnostics feed from immob box grey wire
    yellow - unused
     
  17. Patttt New Member

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    Thanks thats pretty much sorted that then. Only thing being, I'm not sure what'll need splicing if I don't have the plugs. Do you mean as in connect the wires all directly without using the jumper block? As I've had a look through off-cut plugs and can't find any to fit. Cheers
     
  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah exactly just solder em together. so ecu grey/white to immob grey/white, then immob grey to diagnostics port grey/white. black wire on immob to ign live, browns to earth and red/white to the ecu relay live feed to pin 30.

    this is what the wiring would look like if you got it out uncut, note the 1 and 2 pin plugs that join all the looms together:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Patttt New Member

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    Yeah it's a shame the fusebox side plugs had been cut off as I was hoping to keep it oem looking. But I can't complain! Will hopefully report back in a few days once it's all connected up etc. Rain is abit off-putting tbh. I'm hoping it all works because then it's 1 less loom booking you have to think about! Cheers
     
  20. Patttt New Member

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    I've hooked everything up today (hopefully) back here it should go. Wasn't 100% sure. It'll turn over, but I checked fuel lines and no fuel coming through. Fuel pump- It's not priming at the 'start' position, yet it makes some sort of noise when I'm turning the key to full position and engine is turning over/ when I left off the key it makes a whirring noise then stops.

    I tried swapping 62 fuel pump relay for a 167 relay. After doing that the fuel pump didnt even make a whirring noise when cranking engine over like I mentioned above.

    Have one black spade (the latching type one) left over behind the fusebox, a red/blk wire goes to it. Could this be the reason? I'm abit lost really.

    On the starter motor, I can't find the wire that goes to the male spade closest the slam panel? Opposite the red/blk one shown
    IMG_0975.jpg

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2018

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