Emerald wiring help

Discussion in 'Throttle bodies & non-OEM ECUs' started by Paul 16v, Apr 2, 2017.

  1. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    I'm currently installing a set of dth jenveys to an abf with an emerald k6, and I have plenty of questions for you guys.
    This setup has been in mk1 cabby a few yrs ago. So I have a loom that has been cut when I was removed. I've got my head round most of it but this section below is confusing me.
    I don't know what the white wire is for or the blue and black twisted pair.
    The two cables coming from the top of the pic come from the Ecu and are ignition driver 1+2
    The plug in the pic is for the coil pack.
    Any ideas?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    A twisted pair is usually from a speed signal like a crank or cam speed sensor. A single could be a temp or pressure sensor.
     
  3. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    I think one of these wires had a label with tacho on, but can't remember which one,
    I've bought a tacho converter from emerald so I don't think I need a wire from here for it.

    Also I have already accounted for the throttle position sensor, crank position, air temp and water temp as these all do have plugs on thankfully
     
  4. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    I would point to point every wire back to the ECU connector and draw a diagram. Then checking the ECU pinout against your drawing. Wont take long. Try to never ever guess when it comes to ECU wiring as you can potentially cook things in 1/10 second when you power it up
    Jon
     
  5. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Emerald would have supplied the wiring diagram for that installation.
     
  6. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    The Ecu connector has been cut from the loom, I assume to remove it from the previous car. These 3 wires are not on the Ecu connector end, hence why I'm a bit stuck with them.
    Also the emerald wiring diagram doesn't show them, so I was hoping you guys may have a clue.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I should have been a bit more elaborate.

    When you buy an ECU from Emerald they supply a wiring diagram that is specific to the application. You just pulled off a generic diagram from the internet.
    Your ECU has a serial number that will ID back at Emerald's database.

    You need to work with a specific current flow diagram rather than a generic one.
     
  8. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    Ok cool, I'll see if the can send me one

    Cheers Eddie
     
  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Did get it sorted Paul?
     
  10. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    Sorry only got a chance to get back on it today.

    I spoke to emerald and they sent me the following diagram, also said that the extra wires in the original picture are for a tacho pic up using dioades, I've got their tacho box so have done away with these.

    I've tidied up the loom and repaired a few bits and am ready to wire it up to the car now.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  11. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    So with a bit of research on here:

    I can get +12v supply from the black and yellow wire in the scuttle and this can connect to the ecu via pin 28 (ignition supply) and pin 11 (ignition sense input)?
    And also the tach box 12v supply.

    The red and yellow wire in the scuttle I think is fuel pump trigger and connect to ecu pin 20 (fuel pump relay driver)?

    Where can I take power for the coil pack and injector power??

    What wire in the scuttle do I connect the output wire from the new tacho box?


    I think that's it.
    Cheers

    Paul
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    what engine was in the cabrio before? since you mention black/yellow and red/yellow I'm assuming its a 1.8 16v KR code? If so the yellow/black wire you mention is for the idle switch closed feed so that wont work unless you chase it back and re-wire at the fusebox end. if the ISV control unit was wired in too the black/yellow goes behind the fusebox to the ISV control unit plug so you can cut it here and wire it to a suitable ignition feed.

    red/yellow is indeed fuel pump trigger, so that should hook up to ecu pin 20.

    The diagram suggests you should use a relay, if you do it as per the diagram get yourself a switched relay, and ideally a VW relay holder to fit it in as it'll clip nice to the fusebox. If you use one it needs bog standard latched 6.3mm female spades, you'll want a decent crimp tool for this though. pin 30 on your relay goes to one of the P spades, via an inline fuse (ideally VW one, these use 'standard timer' terminals again pretty common) pin 87 to all the ecu power feeds, 86 to G spade 2 or 5 or D/2 or 7, 85 earth to claw.

    ignition coil would be powered from the above relay if you go by this diagram, otherwise the oem coil power wire will do you fine. Injectors again from the ecu power, but if you wire up the oem fuel relay you can run them to the large spade 'N' on the fusebox as per some OEM VW digifant ecu looms do

    tacho feed is the red/black on the coil to the fusebox
     
  13. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I am not repeating or talking over John's suggestions but will like to add my independant 2p as I have seen from working in the field mapping these kinds of projects and from my own reliable MK2s with aftermarket ECUs.

    The way most installers carry out this is pretty simple.
    You should be able to connect the ECU without going inside the car on a MK2 16v kjet except in one or two cases.
    Keep additional wiring to a minimum to stop any user induced issues. It is the one thing I have learned over time towards a pretty trouble free electrics.

    Pretty easy as your car is originally a Kjet 16v and similar to my WOLF R.
    The ECU can be mounted in the same place as the ignition ECU. That is where I also see Emerald dealers like VW Enterprises mounting theirs.
    Emerald makes their diagrams to suit any application and some of the components assume you are starting from scratch, which you are not.

    My suggestions based on my own cars would be to use the existing supply points as you have already discovered for the fuel pump, ECU supply, tach input and KL15 coil supply. John has touched on these.
    Remove the ignition controller and id the controller 12v ( should be the same as the blk/yel that pairs with the red/yel F/P relay trigger)

    You have the option of using the ECU to turn on the fans or leave pin 6 redundant and use the pretty reliable VW fan control system. You call.

    In the WOLF R, which runs a Central Electric 1 system and originally a 16v K jet, I have actually run a dedicated 1.5 mm lead from the fuel pump relay output also to the EFI injector supply. I have also done the same on JENVEE and its CE2 system which had the injector wire in place from the old digifant set up. Idea is in the event of a crash or sudden engine stop the pump and the fuel injection is disabled as per OEM. This method of fuel electrics seems to be repeated in other makes, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan etc as well.

    Use the black and yellow also to supply the ECU on 28 and 11.
    Also run a dedicated earth of 3mm to the battery earth direct.
    Use coil supply (KL15) to 4 pole coil pack supply. Use a Ford 4 pole that uses your OEM 16v leads that you know work.
    Use small red/black back to rev counter cluster to tacho adaptor.

    Solder any joints and use heat shrink as much as possible. Do not use the suggested relays, use the existing from the car where possible. Do not crimp connections. You will finds the demands on trackdays and fast driving can shake off connections and also burn out aftermarket relays. Use as much as the OEM system reduces that likelihood. I am advising as I have seen work on my own cars which do not suffer electrical issues over very large distances and durations.

    The rest is pretty fool proof.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Eddie, the black/yellow next to the red/yellow on the KR is the 'idle switch closed' feed, the ECU power on the KR comes from the black/white wire which is crimped into the same spade as the coil live black from the fusebox. Unless the loom was originally from a corrado, on those the black/white is fed from the fusebox G2/4, though how this would be replicated on the mk1 cabrio above would depend on how the loom builder made it.

    there is a black/yellow for the over-run valve which is ignition live, plus there is a black wire to the throttle body which is ignition live.

    The spade N I mention is fuel relay output, its the equivalent of Z/1 on the CE2 electrics :)
     
  15. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    You might be well right on 12v ECU supply indeed hence the reason I suggested to ID the ignition ECU supply.
    Whatever car the ECU was made for does not matter now that we have a diagram from John/Karl at Emerald and Paui's electrics are fairly common.

    I am aware of what you speak of with the other suppliers, having been there myself many times without having to ask anyone.
    Main point is most of the ECU connection work can be done accessing points outside the car on a MK2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the other consideration with re-using the wiring in the car, is it actually any good? if its all bodged up, then it will continue to be so with the new ecu :lol:

    in an ideal world I would like to have the loom out for a full check over, but it depends on your skill levels. of course with a factory car that you know inside and out then great, but with a new car which has had an engine swap previous you can never tell till you split the loom tape off the horrors that could be lurking underneath...

    my wiring experience has been gained first hand while making looms for people. I've got quite good at it ;)
     
  17. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    Cheers for both your comments both very helpful.
    John the engine was in a mk1 cabby before. I'm now fitting the setup onto my 1990 mk2 gti 16v which was running an abf on kjet.

    I'd like to use the oem pick ups in the scuttle so in the unlikely event I go back to kjet it will be quiet simple.

    I had my looms out about 5 years ago and tidied/repaired and re wrapped them, so they are in a good state and my car ran very well before taking the kjet off.

    I've gone through the loom I got with the emerald and tidied it all up and covered it in a braided loom covering. I've soldered all my joints and heat shrinked them all.

    My k6 is going in the original ecu location also.


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Paul 16v Forum Member

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    What colour is the KL15 wire?
     
  19. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Vehicles I see in the field along with input from the repair shops, that I work with, would suggest most looms inside the car are usually intact and pretty robust providing there has not been a lot of human intervention and alarm installations are not rushed. Looms to the engine components do get brittle with heat.
    The loom towards engine bits in Pauls car would be replaced anyway and having seen his car at several of our shows it is not that bad.
     
  20. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Solid black mate. 1.5mm thick I believe from the comfort of my car on the high street lol
     

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