Franz Probst, VW Rallye 1170cc 376bhp@11000rpm

Discussion in 'VAG Motorsport' started by Toyotec, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    With the weekend upon us, to calm down from all the hard work from the week past, I turned to good old facebook, as you do, to see what was interesting out there and maybe share with the rest of enthusiasts on our Club GTI FB group page.

    Quite a few 10000 rpm 1.6 16v MK1 hillclimb videos after and I stumble on this.

    17190524_1880957478808480_6968863571215827910_n.jpg

    :o

    This car seems to be owned by a chap called Franz, who also drove a Mk1 1.6 16v hillclimb screamer in the E1-1600 hillclimb class.

    For 2017 this car takes part in the E1-2000 hillclimb class. So what is in it?
    It is an 1170cc turbocharged engine capable of 376bhp @ a banshee 11000rpm :clap:
    1170cc I hear you say! Thanks to an EU 1.7 multiplier for boosted hillclimb engines, this engine sits well within the class at 1989cc going by the published displacement.

    17264562_10212473104611328_6899354234822244287_n.jpg
    Pictures of the engine within this car reveal its EA827 origins and I suspect quite a lot of bespoke engineering work to determine undisclosed dimensions such as the bore and stroke.

    Turbo supplier is Garret. Exact spec is undisclosed.

    99-07-GSX1300R-Hayabusa-Engine-Motor-Cylinder-Head-_57.jpg

    16 valve cylinder head looks to be from a Hayabusa 1.3 motorcycle engine given some of the casting bulges, cam sensor aperture and the throttles.
    Based on the rocker used it seems likely the head is based on early 99-07 design. VAG amplified coilpacks supply the spark

    s-l1600 (3).jpg

    It has been observed the cylinder head has been driven on the opposite end which means bespoke camshaft drive was created to be drive by the bespoke belt drive arrangement.

    17264127_10212473109851459_4024203769175823889_n.jpg
    With a Sadev gearbox to stir the engine torque and AWD many modified NASP 2.0 cars should be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

    If anyone has more infomation please feel free to share.

    Hats off to the bloke who created this monster and demonstrated his significant engineering skills and knowledge :thumbup:

    Thanks to RobT for his assistance in this thread.

    Ed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  2. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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    Been looking at that on Facebook while making lunch didn't realise it had motorbike heads that is cool
    Cheers for that guys :thumbup:
     
  3. notenoughtime

    notenoughtime Moderator Moderator

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    Lovely I'll check you tube out :thumbup:
     
  4. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I was looking for youtube footage as the above was a still shot.
    If you find it before me, post it up!
     
  5. Notso Swift Forum Member

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    An I ask is the head just supposition? Looks like motorbike but not the same as the GSX one you posted, there is a diagonal cast rib running up to the cam
     
  6. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    And I ask what grounds do you have to doubt my analysis?
    I appreciate it is a picture. However look at the picture closely then look at the other picture of the basic unmodified gixer head. You might find it is not a 'diagonal cast rib' you saw but a bespoke fabricated attachment.

    Do not think it is hard for this chap as he has recreated the cam drive for the head and that part might just have something to do with that modification.

    If you can demonstrate my enthusiasm to share this post is as trivial as a 'supposition' by all means please share :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  7. Notso Swift Forum Member

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    It is a legitimate question based on the fact that the first gen Hayabusa look like the head he has used, are VAG friendly with an 81mm bore and have mounting bosses cast to them, the 1000's are 74.5 and don't, I don't know the bore centres but the 1300 is physically longer, while the 1000 is definately more bike sized. It also seems to be more appropriate with much better flow potential through bigger valves.
     
  8. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    This is exactly why I captured and started a discussion on this platform.

    GSXR 1000 are 73.4mm bore and at 80mm bore centers.

    Get a picture up of said busa head and let us examine the possibility and I am happy to stand corrected. The plot thickens!
     
  9. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    Realistically, there isn't a VAG head that could flow enough for that hp, on 1100cc, unless the turbo was the size of Gaz's fridge.
     
  10. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Notso Swift this is what you are referring about yes?

    Capture.JPG Capture 2.JPG
     
  11. Notso Swift Forum Member

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    Yes, Exactly
    If the GSXR1000 is 80mm bore centre then it would be out from our 88mm. Hayabusa looks likely
    I have a friend who has a Honda Fireblade head on a Nissan A12 motor, and the Mini with BMW is quite common, another mate and I investigated the GSXR heads on a Suzuki Swift GTi (G13b)

    Volume of air is the same as for 1800cc, hence the revs required, wouldn't spool until 6000 but that still gives a wider range than a NA with 50% more torque and 30% more power
     
  12. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Thanks for the heads up! See what I done? :o
    Have been looking into your suggestion and will edit post 1 as required.

    A12 Datsun 120Y/B210 engines I do remember very well. I remember them as good drag racing engines, capable of spinning 8-9krpm on carbs! I could only imagine the potency with a modern DOHC engineered to fit.
    I have seen a few threads on the Swift GTI G13B also attempting to utilise bike heads also. I vaguely remember working on a Swift GTI engine with a SR20DET turbo attached to it!
     
  13. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    In fact it is and thanks to the eagle eyes of Notso Swift, the head fitted to that Rallye is likely to be a Hayabusa part.
    I have edited post 1 to reflect the enlightenment. Everyday is a school day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  14. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    nice job on that motor. putting a busa head on will give loads of potential efficiencies from bolt on parts available, manifolds, cams etc. head is a good design, no need for valve or port work until large cc increases are made, 1500cc + type engines. people do put bigger valves in but its not something thats very common. Big cams are available, + 20-25hp on a 1350.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  15. HPR

    HPR Administrator Admin

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    Ported Hayabusa heads flow at 11 mm ca 155 - 160 cfm @10``
     
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  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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  17. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    Just how feasible is this conversion for someone with access to a good machine shop?
     
  18. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    how many have you seen?
     
  19. HPR

    HPR Administrator Admin

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    Many things need solved to make it work....

    a summary... altough far from complete...

    C-C distance of bores, do they line up ?
    Headbolts ( custom made ) and pattern vw <> bike head .... do they line up ?
    Make cooling and lubrication work > Oil feed and return lines & Water channels and more...
    Headgasket
    Camshaft drive > change from chain to toothed belt drive
    Custom made crank, rods and pistons
    and way more little things that need solved...

    Its also clear that it will need a healty ***** budget...
     
  20. sparrow Forum Junkie

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    It's been done. So it's just a matter of time, money and determination. Lots and lots of those three.
     

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