Hi all. Apologies if this has already been covered but I am finding a lot of mixed opinions on this matter. Right basically I had a hell of a whine coming from my 1991 mk2 16v Kr. I was changing my oil pump to realise that the intermediate shaft has slight play and doesn't rotate smoothly. So I think that's where the whine is coming from. I now know it's an engine out job which isn't a problem for me. But while it's out I would rather throw a 2ltr bottom end on instead of fixing the standard Kr one. I am thinking of buying one which is an agg engine code. I think that is an abf bottom end? Could I put my recently rebuild port and polished Kr cylinder head on it? I know there maybe clearance issues but could I just get round that by fitting a thicker head gasket on that compresses to 15mm to allow the engine to work without any piston slap and bent valves? Or am i just better off repairing the kr block? Also I took between 10-15 thou off cylinder head. Thank you all for any help you can give me and what to watch out for. Again apoligies if you are sick and tired of being asked the same questions.
Hello there, using an 8v block will actually greatly reduce the compression, so really isnt the way to go about it. people have used them for boost, but IIRC you still need to machine the pistons slightly for clearance. that plus the fact you have to swap over the intermediate shaft, oil pump and timing belt sprockets from a 16v engine means it really isnt worth the hassle for most people, when you could fit a complete 2.0 16v and stack 2x metal gaskets to drop the compression enough for boost (see the Wolf R for details) anyway, to cut a long story short. forget that idea, get a complete ABF engine instead
Thank you very much for your prompt reply I appreciate it. I can't really afford a complete abf engine at the moment. Plus I am not very good with wiring so that scare's me a little haha. If I just rebuild the intermediate shaft and replace any old seals etc on my existing kr block would that be ok? I will forget the 2ltr bottom end as I know you are extremely clued up on these cars and your advice and guidance is very much appreciated bud. Could you please advise me on the best way to fix the existing kr block? Thanks again dude
you can drop the abf engine or just bottom end with your head in using the old engine management see here, a few pages in the wiring side is covered if you wanna go abf management later: https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/133418/ you can also use 9a, 6a, ace vw and audi codes for a 2.0 bottom end/engine, those will also go with old management. they have no crank sensor so you cant use abf ecu direct, but there are aftermarket ecu which work off the dizzy or are a few ways to add crank sensors as well if need be. save that for future projects though as for fixing up the KR main thing is source quality parts from KS, elring, oem VW etc. You can buy the int shaft bearings also: VW: 056 103 501 and 056 103 521 KS: 85 957 604 and 85 958 604 http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_11_5_400&products_id=1354 worth lookign around for local engineering/engine builder firms, they might be able to sort the bottom end for reasonable money or if not sell you good quality parts so you can do it yourself
That's great buddy can't thank you enough for your advice. I think I will get all the bittys priced up and take it from there. Am i better off replacing piston rings etc whilst it's out?
make a judgement call, but tbh as you say its probably worth doing while you've splitting the lump down. block needs bores measured before you order any parts, then honing for the new rings you get. What I would say in short is before you spend anything split the engine down completely, then check everything over to see if its worth saving or if it would be more economical to replace the lot with another lump
Super. Thanks so much buddy you are a star. I will keep you posted with the progress. Worst case scenario I will use some savings to buy a good abf engine. Thanks again dude have a good day
Hi sorry if my messages are bugging you I don't want to be a pain in the ass. It was just to let you know that I have a local engine specialist price all parts required and also to hone the cylinders and fit intermediate shaft bearings. Then they will just give it all back to me and I can finish off the rest. It's a total of £420. What do you think? Cheers
That is a lot when you compare to a price of a 2.0 block which can be 200 or less. But for the amount of quality parts you'll be getting plus the skilled labour and time involved it sounds reasonable. So it depends which way you want to go really, 420 means you have a really nice new 16v block vs going for a used 2.0 which could still have potential issues to sort out
Yeah definitely. I think I will just get the kr one fixed as much as I would love a 2ltr bottom end I would like to rebuild it before fitment anyway to avoid future headaches and that would cost me a fortune haha. Thanks again buddy your advice is very valuable to me. Will keep you updated on the rebuild. Have a great day and thanks again.
Firstly i would get current engine compression tested...should be 170psi+ evenly across all 4 cylinders, this will indicate condition of rings sealing to the bores. Once bottom end off then the condition of crank bearings can be determined....personally if its coming out i would budget for a hone & new rings (based on result of compression test), new crank bearings (and the intermediate bearings), new oil pump, windage tray, and a new multi layer steel head gasket. This will future proof the bottom end giving you peace of mind if you plan to keep it long term. I dont see the point of stripping bottom end and not doing this as it is a lot of work should something let go later? That will give you a good reliable strong bottom end with a decent head giving you the choice of maybe going higher lift cams in future if you fancy a touch more power......
Timo16v thank you for your reply. Yes going to just overhall the bottom end completely. All I have to do now is find a work space and engine hoist and then I can get started. I have had the car for over 8 years now and would love to get another 8 out of it. So hopefully once the bottom end is complete it will be good for another 150 thou miles
Hi all. Just to let you know I have found an abf 6a tall block engine locally. The boy is wanting 300 for it. Is this engine a straight swap or would it be a hassle to fit? I also have a guy locally that has a full 16v kr engine with 50mm inlet. I was planing on buying and fitting that temporarily until I get my block rebuilt. What do you think is the best way to go. Thank you and sorry for dragging this thread out.
is it an ABF or a 6A? 6a is same as 9a & ACE, which are same block height as the KR so direct swap no problems. ABF are a bit taller, but so long as you stick with OEM exhaust parts will again swap straight in no problem at all. as per Eddies brilliant guide: https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/133418/ If it was me, I would buy the abf and install it with abf ecu and management. (well, what I actually did, was put a 2.0 8v bottom on my 1.8 digifant. Then after swappign on a 'rebuilt and flowed' head which turned out to be scrap, I put the KR engine in which was supposed to be for my cabrio temporarily & changed digifant management to Kjet. The 2.0 8v was swapped for a bare ABF, which I fitted using the kr management so the KR engine could be fitted to the cabrio where it belonged. Once cabrio was running, kjet was removed from the MK2 and swapped for ABF ecu and loom. Then eventually it went into the MK2, and cabrio was sold due to impending wedding. )
Wow that was a great guide thank you for that Eddie. I have been told it's a 6a tall block but will arrange a viewing and have a look myself. As the seller isn't being entirely clear. Thanks very much for your help I will be referring back to this thread often whilst doing the job. I may have a few questions regarding abf management and ecu. I have never been that great with electrics and wires haha nuts and bolts are fine though. Suppose I will have to learn at some point though. That's funny I have to sell my yamaha WR450F to help fund my wedding also. But I am finding it very difficult to let go
easy to tell if engine code isnt visible, look down the bottom of the engine block gearbox side at the front, you'll see a crank sensor if its an ABF. If not, its 6a/9a/ace (check round the back for the big 2.0 to confirm its a 2.0!) if it is 6a then seller probably getting 'tall block' confused with 'bubble block' which is what the 6a/9a/ace are commonly referred to. ABF ecu swap is covered a few pages in on the guide above, but its relatively easy for CE2 fusebox as it almost plugs straight in. I've put a lot of info into the guide on the finer points of making an abf loom fit properly as well
Excellent thanks so much you have been such a great help. I appreciate your advice. I will keep you updated with the progress I hope you don't mind. And to be honest I will hopefully get engine before Xmas but will get Xmas out of the way before ripping it all apart. Thanks again man
you're welcome, I've got to get mine thru an MOT in a week or so, bit tricky when one of the handbrake lever nuts has sheared off. nice fun job to sort this time of year
Haha yeah the mk2's never fail to keep us busy. If you don't hear from me before Xmas have a good one dude and good luck with yours
Just had a guy text me regarding engine. He has an abf on offer as it has crankshaft sensor. It's not got all of the fuel lines running to the top of the air box though. Would send you a picture but I can't sus it out lol.
