Koni Adjustables/ARB trackday settings

I guess i could make overall assumptions here

Standard car , easy to drive but not very fast ( unless the surface is rough)

Modded car , getting harder to drive, twitchy , but fast on smooth surfaces

WHat most of us want is a a set of modifications that are somewhere in the middle. Getting that balance is the hard part.

The person driving i think makes the most difference , how far they can drive on the edge of grip and beyond.
I used to love my mk2 but now its getting to twitchy [:^(] Wishbones at 2 o`clock ..

The car to watch when on a track is a Reeves car, for track setup that has to seen (be overtaken by) to be belived.

Edited by: dUff

 

Spot on Tris

When I drove Dex's car along my local little test route *cough* it had stock suspension with Eibach ARBs, 3 miles of it is a bumpy river bank which sees my car taking off,being upset by bumps, his car took the bumps in it's stride and was a lot easier to drive.

My car is way too stiff for the amount of road miles I do - but as I haven't got another car to use, I put up with it Wouldn't go any stiffer with different springs that's for sure.

 

Ok Ok, horizontal

 

i *hope* everyone knew what you meant mate - if not, they should leave this thread now...

 

Golden it was just they seemed to be advising on there that you should throw away the front ARB fit a mighty rear one, use stiff front springs and never lower them ever, wondered what your thoughts were

I am with them on the lowering thing

 

I think 40mm is the piont at which the whisbones are level on a mk2 16v, seems to be for me!

 

The stiff front springs would achieve the same thing as stiff ARB's all round, the difference being that what you would loose in ride quality you would gain from better suspension control as the two sides work fully independently.

My big problem with the stiff the springs idea is that they need to be so stiff to limit the body roll enough to stop camber change that they would be all but undriveable on the road.

I still think lowering them is worth it, I agree with KeithMac 30-40mm on a 16V/GTI is about the most you should go. Lowering the CofG is always worth it but lower it any more than the 30mm and the roll centre drops right down so that all the sprung weight transmits it weight through the springs and bars.

This means some of the gains made by fitting bigger ARB's is lost due to excessive lowering. This may be those that favour the "in the weeds" look think ARB's are the nuts, because they are counteracting roll they enhanced by lowering the car.

I think for a car used on the roads ARB's are a much better idea than very stiff springs, but on a track car I'd probably agree with the septics and go for just the stiff springs.

That being said it's much easier to diconnect an ARB when it p1sses down than change springs.

p.s. septic = septic tank = yank

 

Correct me if i am wrong.. but wouldn't running amazingly stiif springs stop, or at least limit, the suspensions 'job.'

I mean, you could nearly eliminate body roll from springs, but would have problems getting good braking and acceleration. If you stiffen coilovers right up to their hardest, the front wheels just spin up too easy.. there is no 'give' in the suspension to aid traction on acceleration... the same goes for stopping.

So running slightly harder springs, but still allowing the suspension to do that 'job' and then installing ARB's to limit body roll/weight shiftin/camber change or whatever else you wanna call it may be the far better option?

 

I think if you do have a springs and shock setup as above it the arbs would make less of a noticeable difference.

As for point 1 i suppose that has to be some mega heavy poundage springs for track use. And ditch the normal road type springs that are progressive and go for Linear Rate.

I suppose if this was done the next weak point could be bushes and they could be under greater stress

 

Too many what's,ifs and maybes going on here, anyone actually tried these theories out ??

going back to original question why not play with the adjustments you have (shox and tyre pressures)and come up with your own opinion of what works best with you and your car? From the days driving you can then work out whats best to try next ...

 

I`ve had a good play with the coilovers and found the best setup at 40mm, next for me is the arb`s although to be honest my car doesn`t really feel like it`s rolling a lot but I`ve got to give them a go!

Same with the tyre pressures, I found what you guys were running is too soft for me, maybe I don`t drift as much round corners therefore the tyres keep cooler?

Barny`s got the best idea, go and have a play with what you`ve got, I found the handling spot on, but the engine lacking!

 

Ever seen an F1, BTCC or Leman car with braking or grip problems from too stiff suspension ?




This is my car at curby last year on the exit of the chicane, a relativly slow corner and yet is showing considerable body roll. Yet this is with very stiff springs and Eibachs too, you can almost see the inside wheel is getting very light, if the diff wasnt in i would guess the wheel will spin.

Yet each time i go up on the spring rate and roll is reduced, grip levels increase. Ever watched the reeves car on track, the speed that they carry is very impressive and they run lower and stiffer than i do !!

I was told,and its coming very true, that first you eliminte roll on he front end to keep the tyres in contact with the track, then make the rear suspension stiffer, to work harder and effect front end bite,to aid turn in feel. Its a bit odd at first but it does work.

Running stiff rear suspnsion doesnt cause oversteer, but can increase the likely hood of it happening, the trade off being godd turn in feel and bite i.e no understeer!

 

I kind of see what you are saying there... but going back to my point about traction from super stiff front springs. We are mostly working with MK2's and they are a very different animal to BTCC and F1 cars.

I am personally a little sceptical about having incredibly stiff springs.. again, only for the reason that i know how much both my Golf's have wanted to spin up when the coilovers where on their hardest. Admitadly i have never had the front push away from me under braking on track. I think Mallory is gonna see me playing a lot with the sus settings...

 

Tub the reason you may feel you're getting more wheelspin with very stiff suspension may be down to the rate of change of weight front to rear.

When you put your foot down weight transfers to the back, unloading the front tyres and loosing traction.

A soft setting will take longer for the weight to transmit through the springs rather than instantly with a stiff setting, this delay allows you to modulate the throttle more to get the best take off.

It's a bit like the difference in the sharpness of turn in when comparing soft suspension to stiff.

 

600lb" stiff enough for you ?

 

Yes.. but how about the rest of the chasis geometry and the millions that have gone into the design of every last component...

 

What worked / works for me:

Mk2 1800cc 16v Golf - road car (150bhp / 131lbft) standard engine apart from K&N filter

Eibach ARB`s all round; Koni front TA`s on max; Koni rears (preset by AMD); Standard springs.

Tyre pressures as per handbook; Yoko A510`s 185/55 x 15

This set up produced a very well balanced car for all road conditions

Mk1 1800cc 8v Golf - hill / sprint / track car ~ 170bhp with Quaife ATB

Eibach ARB`s allround; Koni TA`s allround on max; Koni Sport springs; Bugpack urethane bushes allround; six point rollcage with rear legs braced together.
Front strutbraces upper and lower.

Tyres - Yoko - A032R`s - Soft for tracks - Supersoft for hills / sprints. A520`s where regs do not permit 32R`s. 185/60 X 14

Tyre pressures (as per Yoko Motorsport advice) - front as standard 24# - rear 40# ..... increasing the front makes the car slide quite dramatically.

Before I fitted the rear beam axle urethane bushes; increased the rear tyre pressures and increased the rear Koni settings the car was quite tail happy. Now it is superb...rock solid.

Don`t ask me to explain; the answers are all in the previous posts I`m sure but save to say it works well and thanks to TSR and Yokohama for the advice.

Hope this helps you guys !

 

my point was the btcc etc cars have no problems with grip and stiff suspension .....


my other point was i have 600+lb springs on my golf

 

Can I ask jamesa, why ur "Mk2 1800cc 16v Golf - road car (150bhp / 131lbft) standard engine" produces considerably more power & torque than quoted by VW: 139bhp/124lbft? Jus curious!

I cant comment on ur car but generally the settings you mentioned, such as, increasing tyre pressures & stiffening of springs on the rear wud tend 2 increase oversteer but at a more progressive rate. Slidding gradually rather than letting go all of a suffen.

Altho I do agree increasing front tyre pressures increases understeer.

Sean

Ps barny; lovely car mate! & did u notice ur fuel tank flap has come open on ur pic?! U must av been cornerin hard, or jus 4got 2 close it!

 

*cough* must get round to getting a new spring clip