Thank you MH. Interesting that you don't weld them, I'll have to fold up the parts and see if I can get close enough that it doesn't move around in there. Got all the stuff to do it here, so a few adjustments here and there shouldn't be an issue. I grabbed a bunch of Cosworth rubber flaps for gates before I found this thread, have you guys had any issues using those instead of the metal flaps? I saw that some of the originals didn't even use flaps, just cut-outs. At any rate, I appreciate all the discussion and willingness to share your ideas. bo
Im no fan of those rubber flaps, as the flow and flex is limited and the bore ( s) in the baffle plates are quite a small diameter and at high revs the oil pump might have more oil demand than there is oil flowing to the middle section of the sump Ofcourse not all oil need to pass though these flaps as there is also oil flowing in from above To get an idea...based on dry sump pump data, iirc these pump ca 6 - 8 Liter / 1000 rpm If we take 6000 - 8000 rpm engine speed....but as the oil pump spin only @ half engine speed ... so its 3 - 4000 rpm x 6 or 8 Liter .... that would be 18 to 32 L / Min OR up to ca 0,5 L / second Edit: And excess oil will flow via pressure relieve valve back into the sump.... Im not saying this is absolute correct ... but atleast its food for tought and open to discus
Well, that's the food I'm looking for. I had seen them used on other motors and thought I'd get a set to have a look at. I'm not entirely comfortable about the size of the hole needed, and the fact they don't go all the way to the pan floor. I'll see if I can bend up an appropriate hinge to use metal flaps. Is there any reason not to weld in the baffles? Cleaning i suppose, or warpage, but I can't think of other reasons.
Hello, sorry to kick a slightly older topic, but I have some questions about the DIY baffleplates I understand the function of the doors, but how to determine the height? As far as I know the oil sieve is quite low. How to make sure the doors dont het the sieve and therefore have less functionality? I read in my investigation I had today that the doors should not be opposite to each other - but a lot of designs have exactly that. Can anybody think of a reason why not? After the sandplasting, do you re-spray the inner side of the sump as well? I know, where the oil is, there won't be rust, so blank steel should work too.
Going to start to make my own baffled sump this week, does anybody have some tips related to the questions above?
Exactly Now I have to figure out how big the siphon is, where it locates in the pan (I suspect/ hope exactly above the round dip in the pan) and how high, so I know how big the door can be. For now the doors maximum width is 55 mm and the height is to be defined, up to 40 mm at least is possible. Also, I have to re-check other designs to see if a baffle plate on the LHS is also necessary. That's quite close to the side already. Edit: Looking on previous ages, the siphon is located more to the right, where my piece of cardboard is right now. Well, I'll just remove the pan in the weekend and start working on it for real
Too bad none of the guys above is answering, I just started with the sump and it only raises more questions It's hard to determine where the siphon is, measurement is difficult (and inaccurate) and the best I can do is copy here and there from the Schrick pan. And if you know where the siphon is, it's still difficult to decide door location and sizes. (How high can the door be? Does it hit the siphon? Does go above? Stay below?). The other problem is you can't see if it actally works. If the siphon blocks a door, and there is too less oil coming... bye bye engine. So my plan for now is: 1 plate with door on the RHS, and copy the Schrick plates on the LHS (oil pump side). I reccon the engineers at Schrick thought about a bit and if you look at the design, you can see the oil routes for all directions
Made some pictures here and there, as good as we could with the pan as good in place as possible. After that, I noticed the oil pump pickup entry thingy has left 2 marks in the Schrick pan. No damage can be seen on the pump itself, but it does make positioning where the pump pickup entry is a whole lot easier. Because the Schrick design doesn't really fit in a metal pan (it is different on the sides) I already decided to go back to the 2-doors-plan.
Cleaning and some last things still needed, but the pan is as good as ready Many thanks to cupra rally who was kind enough to help me by PM
Are the Schrick sumps not worth the money then? Had oil pressure light come on during track day so was looking into see what can be done Also I will be taking the sump off my ABF in the mk2 to make sure nothing is stuck in the oil pickup, is it worth getting a sump gasket with the windage tray or just the normal gasket is fine?
If they are worth the money is personal. I think they do work, they thought about the design quite well. But as said they are made of cast alu. Steel dents, cast alu breaks.
What about the diesel windage tray on the ABF? Or is the plastic ABF one sufficient enough especially when driving on track/fast road use?
https://cdn4.mijnautoonderdelen.nl/parts/PicData-3/00052/71-31943-00.jpg This one? It's anti splash and can help a bit with braking, but it doesn't really do anything in (long) corners in my opinion.
Indeed its a windage tray... it keep the oil in the sump and to avoid that the crank and rods slam into the oil ... and to avoid even more foam / air-bubbles into the oil.... Its the combination of a baffled sump with a windage tray that keep the oil below in the sump and the centre box need always feeded with as much oil... and make sure the oil keep attached to the floor ...
So compared to what is already fitted to the ABF engine - https://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.com/catalog/en_uk/part/051103623 Is the diesel windage tray a benefit or not as an addition?
As above, this simple design works in any situation I've ever encountered, circuits, sprints, hill climbs, auto tests etc. no trouble with oil starvation or surge. Use the steel sump as it bends not breaks in the event of an impact. Use the windage tray because it keeps the oils where you want it and has the added advantage of having an in built gasket. Use a smear of silicon as it is designed for a alloy flat sump and the steel sump has a ribbed surface. It will weep if you don't use a sealant, but it can still be cleaned up and used again. Don't paint it inside; don't ask why, just trust me . Drill out the threaded holes in the alloy seal plates either end and tap to the next size up and drill the sump accordingly, as at least one thread will strip otherwise.
