Greetings, I have a 1983 GTI track car that has recently experienced 3 failures of the front wheel hub. What happens is the hub breaks at the junction of the vertical to horozontal surfaces. The outer CV joint threads break off and then the wheel tries to leave the car. I feel like I have dodged three big bullets in that I haven't crashed the car. The common theme with all failures is that the hubs are new "Meyele" hubs that I suspect are rubbish even though they proudly proclaim "made in Germany". I have looked into getting custom axles and hubs made but I was talking to a racer freind of mine and he has experienced zero failures with OEM parts. Currently the car is running with 90mm axles and OE wheel bearing housings. It has a full coil over suspension with some heavy springs. The racing I do is endurance racing. Each event the car will be pounded on for at least 20 hours. Any thoughts, ideas, need more info? Thanks Craig
have a look in this thread it sounds similar to yours http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?218773-Hub-flange-failure-diagnosis-engineering-chums&highlight=cv+joint
Greetings again Mushy 16v the thread you linked looks very familiar. I would post photos of my failures but I think I am too new of a member to be allowed to do so. In the linked thread the photo of the failed hub looks a lot like what I have except I am also losing the CV joint. My theory is that the hub breaks first putting all of its loads into the stub of the outer CV joint. The joint can't handle the load and "pop" off comes the threaded portion of the joint and I'm now just a passenger. I replace the bearings before every event. The axles get torqued to 200 ft lb. They are checked along with the wheel nuts at every pit stop. The car has 500lb springs in the front with 450lb in the back. Yellow double adjustable Koni's take care of the dampening. The ride height is as low as I dare. I have ball joint extenders and have flipped the tie rods. I run 2 1/2 deg camber in the front with a little less than 2 deg in the rear. The race series I run with dictates that tires must have a tread wear rating of at least 200. I run Falken Azenis 195/60R14 on OE wheels. On the scales the car comes in at little over 1800lbs with 10 gallons of fuel and me in it. Another thing I have been considering but really have not been able to confirm is using MK2 Scirocco spindles bearings and hubs. Funny thing is that parts catalogues only list 1 wheel bearing part number for all MK1 GTI, Scirocco, Jetta and Cabriolet. I have another racing buddy with a 16v Scirocco and his hubs and bearings are considerably larger. Any body know, are they different? I really want to get to the bottom of this. I shudder to think "what if this happened at this corner" I have owned and raced this car off and on for 15 years or so and never had a hub fail. Wheel bearings and axles for sure but never a hub. Regards Craig
Aye you should be able to post pictures You will have to host then on photo bucket or one of the others Use the direct link when pasting into the image tab I think the common denominator is the flange Both are aftermarket Chris's was a fabi flange Whether that's the only factor it's hard to say But getting a OEM replacement would be a start Same goes for the CV joint
As far as I know: The only difference between A1 wheel bearing housings is that the inside is machined slightly larger from mid-1984 onwards to allow for the larger outer CVs that were put on most models across the VW range from that date. So all post-84 Mk2 Scirocco 8/16v and Mk1 Golf Cabriolet wheel bearing housings are the same. Also, wheel bearings and hubs are the same on all A1 cars (except maybe very early ones) inc Scirocco 16v.
It is a common problem on Mk1 Golfs , you can apparently fit the Mk 2 bearings and hubs into the mk 1 upright you need to machine the hub out slightly. Its a tricky job but good engineering shop will cope and check clearances etc . Using standard VW parts ( not aftermarket ) is a good idea also and remember everytime change the hub and bearing together . Its the hub that is weak not the bearing . Also check that the drive shafts have sideways play and there is no pressure from that ( it usually fails in the cage ,) but check it anyway , this needs to be done at ride height ,not when the car is in the air obviously a 4 post lift is ideal .
there is very little room to bore it out you get two sizes of mk2 wheel bearings aye thats right the mk1 uses mk2 cv joints after that date your right all mk1's use the same wheel bearings
I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is but one solution to MK1 and Mk2 Hub/CV failures: Convert to Mk2 VWMS design. IE: Bored Out Upright - Passat/Audi 80 Bearing - Modified Audi 80 Hub - Audi 80 CV Joint Bore Upright to 68mm. Fit 321 498 625D Bearing. Drill and Tap 4 x 100 PCD into Audi 80 Hub. #1 Skim Audi 80 Hub Bearing Dia.to 40mm all along. Stepped design 40mm/43mm. Fit Audi 80 CV Joint.#2 #1 - Use only genuine Audi Hubs. Better 2nd hand ones from a breaker than aftermarket rubbish. The VAG hubs are forged from the correct steel. The aftermarket ones are probably machined from any old bar stock. So the grain flow in the forged hubs is perfect, anything machined from bar stock will have discontinuities cut into the straight grain. #2 - The Audi CV Joint is far superior as it uses a 'stretch' bolt to control joint tightness perfectly. The VW type CV, with a nut, is very poor in comparison. Use only VAG or GKN/Lobro CV Joints. Aftermarket ones are very questionable.
Greetings again gents, A couple of pictures Not sure if this forum interface likes my IPad, seems to do some weird stuff
Just an update on what my current plans are. I sourced a new wheel bearing as recommended by Dave. I think I'm too new to "thank" you officially on this forum as I don't have a "thanks" button, but THANKS!!! I sourced a new wheel hub that I beleive is from a VW Quantum/ Audi 4000 (Audi 80??) I found that good quality 90mm CV joints are impossible to find so I am going to convert the axles to 100mm, of which I have found a source for Lobro / GKN I also found a machine jobber shop (not sure what you might call this type of business in the UK) that seems willing to do the work. This was rather difficult as most machine shops around my home are strictly production oriented. The wheel hub I have is another new "Meyle" product that will go into the scrap bin as soon as the machine shop is done with it. Just as an FYI. The box it came in says "Germany" all over it, the hub says "Germany" but there is a little sticker on the side of the box that says "made in PR China". There will NEVER be another Meyle product on my car I'm going to a European car salvage yard tomorrow morning to try and source some OE wheel hubs. The new wheel hub is about 4mm thicker at the flange area so I am hopeful that with a good used forged part I can put this issue to rest. I really want to say THANKS to everybody who responded to my questions. You really led me to a path that I feel good about Regards Craig
Howdy fellas, Parts for my front hub upgrade are coming in. I pick up the hubs this afternoon. I have one more question if I may. Do you have a preference for wheel bearing manufacturers? Currently I'm using SKF. Haven't really had a problem with the bearing per say but if there is an OEM brand name you would prefer I'd like to know what it is. The goal is to get all the bits off to the machine shop next week. Regards Craig
I would stick with SKF. Good, known brand and no negative comments on here about them. I use them exclusively now after trying the cheaper brands and having issues
Craig. My own Mk2 bored out uprights, and Audi 80 turned hubs, are still with the machine shop, which is about 80 km south. I wish I had the time to pick them up and show you the results as guidance. Dave. There's now't wrong with SKF. I have used hundreds, if not thousands, in my career. But! I am a little upset these days when SKF bearings are not made in Sweden. So! I am now considering buying FAG.
As above, I've been running SKF bearing on the race car for 3 years now with not one hint of a failure even with power/torque way above OEM spec. I changed to SKF after having an issue with a FAG bearing. Change them every season at least, sometimes twice in a season along with hubs just to be safe.
Interesting! What were the issues with regard to FAG? As I stated below, I am considering FAG next time I need a wheel bearing, so, to make an objective judgement your issues would be most helpful. As I also stated, I have been involved with SKF products for 47 years, and at Laycocks only SKF Bearings were used. All of course were made in Sweden at that time. British made RHP bearings, and others, were tested to destruction and all failed much earlier than SKF. I also worked directly with SKF in the early 1980s and visited their Bangbro Factory. I used 3 massive SKF bearings on the coal handling equipment at Kilroot Power Station. These were: 3000mm, 2750mm and 2000mm diameter. But. Recently I have bought SKF which were manufactured in. Italy, Spain, Brazil and Malaysia. Subjectively this puts me off, as only Italy has any history in Engineering.
As long as stuff works as it should, I don't care where it's made. The FAG bearing seemed to develop more play at what we thought was a higher rate than it should. Nothing dangerous or faulty about it.
