MK1 Racer (ALL BROKEN PHOTOBUCKET PICS FIXED) - Painted and out of the bodyshop....

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by 16valver, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Rado-Sean Paid Member Paid Member

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    Beautiful serious stoppers, nice fit in the wheel to
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    Nooo. :o


    Buy some soft jaws ! lol
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    Be careful with the wheel weight positioning, I have similar clearance and need to put them between the spokes.
    Looking really good :clap:
     
  3. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    ^^ Nigel, given the level of skill in this thread goes well beyond 'novice' and Ali has used ally jaw clamps when sharing this picture on the Gemini ring gear bolted to his diff,

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    as he has been so meticulous in this thread, clearly he just lightly clamped the disk to share the picture with us, knowing no harm would be caused.


    Ali, I do like your methodical approach to developing this vehicle. I would like to see it run in person sometime.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  4. sports racer Forum Member

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    There's so many pictures here that are pure engineering porn.

    Love it!
     
  5. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    I obviously missed where he explained that...;) lol lol

    I`m well aware he used soft-jaws earlier in the thread, hence me commenting when he didn`t.
     
  6. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I 100% agree.
    The stuff that can be shown off at an enthusiasts meet or even at an international expo that have evolved out of the need to be competitive/durable at a race.
     
  7. 16valver Forum Member

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    As Adlai mentions, disc is just lightly clamped. For the ring gear bolts it was high torque and needed to be tight in the vice, so I used the soft alloy jaws for that. For the disc it was only something like 18 ft/lbs for the bolts, so lightly clamped in vice was fine.

    My wheel weights are usually mounted on far inner edge of wheel or outside of spokes depending on what the balancer says. After that they get taped over with alloy foil tape as otherwise they can fall off with the heat.



    Well noticed on the soft jaws!

    That should be possible next year as my plan is to race down south in 2018 and see what times the car will do. Looking at CSSCC open series, CNC heads and NSSCC races. Don't think I can commit to full year but want to do something other than Knockhill.
     
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  8. 16valver Forum Member

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    Still well behind with updating this...


    Next was tyres. The intention was always to run 275 slicks, but due to costs and also deciding to run in the local Superlap Scotland sprint series, I needed to run list 1b tyres. After much research it became clear that the widest list 1b tyres that were available were the Avon ZZS in 245/40/15



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    A bit much of a stretch for my liking, but they would do pretty well and later I would find they had a lot more grip than the old 200 section slicks.
     
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  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I guess the 1b tyre is a control tyre for that series?

    Some sort of 'cut slick' if I can call it that?

    Where does it sit in terms of a full on slick and say a 'wet' if allowed?
     
  10. 16valver Forum Member

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    Next up was the rear track width as with the berg arches it needed a significant increase over stock. At the same time I wanted to change to later Polo 6N stub axles so that I could go to a proper bearing, run rear ABS reluctor rings and have the holes to mount ABS sensors (something that I need to install traction control at a later stage), and finally to raise the position of the rear wheels in relation to the axle. This last point was with the intention of having the rear beam at optimal position when running my lower ride height and therefore not lose effective wheel base.

    I had looked at various setups for inspiration, some from here also....


    My car on the old MK2 setup...


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    Some other examples....


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    I worked out how much I needed to increase the width (iirc approx. 60mm each side) and then bought some aluminium round bar which was the correct diameter to fit the back of the stub axles. At the same time I had sourced some 8mm (iirc) mild steel flat plate to match the thickness of the OEM axle. I matched the PCD on the axle and also drilled additional holes to mount the stub axle higher up. The plate was welded to the beam but I also kept the original holes so that I could bolt these to the beam in the stock location, as this was a belt and braces approach.

    The worry I have with various kits selling as 'drop plates' is strength in the case of a side impact, so a further braced the top sections that were extended above the OE mounting face.




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    Then I bolted the new plates to the beam which would also fix them in place to prevent warping during welding...



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    The it was a case of bolting everything up and checking for clearance...




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    Clearance was 'enough' and was happy my measurements were correct, but the only worry was a hit on the rear and a bent rim contacting the bottom of the beam tie bar. This was a balancing act between going too much and not allowing enough tyre clearance for larger slicks in future, and then also having inner clearance, although as I had left enough on the outer edge for the tyre, running a 5mm spacer on the rear now gives plenty of clearance between the inner rim and the beam.


    To finish off I painted the bits and did final fitting. I was running out of time at this stage and didn't want to have to remove the whole beam for re-powdercoating, so I just painted with what I had, so wasn't an exact match in colour but it would do. Calipers were lockwired on and helicoiled old threads, as previously I had a caliper come off and wanted to avoid this in future!



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  11. 16valver Forum Member

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    Yes, only list 1a & 1b allowed for Superlap Scotland. You can run list 1c if in Pro class, but there is nothing wider in 1c anyway, so no point.

    There are some historic rally tyres in wider sizes on 1b, but they are horrendously expensive and just as well paying for new slicks.

    I found them pretty good in the wet and very good in the dry. From the two events I have done in the car now it has had approx. 80 mins of track running and wear has been minimal even when on longer 12 lap stints. Not sure which compound Avon use for the ZZS, but I don't think its the same as they use for the proper competition slicks/wets, and much closer to more durable compounds used for list 1b and road cars.
     
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  12. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Lovely work.
    I'm curious about the stub drop plates. You commented you wanted to keep the axle geometry correct, but does the drop plate not give the same effect as say the infamous " bolting a spacer between the front hub and wishbone effect "? That it looks right but isn't? Or is the drop plate so you don't have the wind the spring platforms all the way down and end up with the damper almost closed?
     
  13. HPR

    HPR Administrator Admin

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    When you lower the car much front wishbones and rearbeam are under an awkward angle > which destroy any decent geometry..so with these drop plates. the rear hub is mounted higher, while the rear beam is kept more or less under the same angle as an oem car
     
  14. 16valver Forum Member

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    Tristan, further to Hugo's comments, with stock setup and lower ride heights, the beam sits at such an angle that the rear wheels are actually physically moved closer to the front of the car and shortens wheel base. It also means that you lose damper travel with the shocks wound low. With the changes I now have the rear shocks wound fully upwards and have pretty much the full travel of the shock useable, despite the body of the car sitting lower relative to the ground.
     
  15. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    Like the TonyB rear axle drop plate design, incorporating cross brace mount points.

    Post 950 4th pic.

    Massive efforts going into making a very compromised old design work for racing. Ace to see.
     
  16. mr.brown

    mr.brown Paid Member Paid Member

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    Great work there. Just a quick question - will you need to cut a notch out of the spacer to fit the ABS sensor or is there enough clearance?
     
  17. 16valver Forum Member

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    Yes, very old and compromised design and tbh, with hindsight I would have started with something else.

    Still, as you say, it is good to see when modifying for racing, and I guess that's why we all do these things?! Building a modern Impreza or Evo is easy in comparison with the available parts, but they don't get the spectators as excited as when its a 35 year old 'classic' car going even quicker.


    On another point, I am considering Avon slicks for next year and I am not sure on the compound to go for. The car is 840 kg's and 915 kg's with me in it, the races are 20 minutes long, and with the cost of them I don't want to be replacing them every other event.



    I was looking at your comments on your Radical thread (which were helpful) against Avon's list and was thinking around A37 which is described as soft for saloon car's. I cant remember what I ran before (need to check), but they were too hard.
     
  18. 16valver Forum Member

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    Good question - yes, I had to cut / notch the spacers for the ABS sensors. Although I don't have the sensors yet, I realised this when doing them and made clearance so that they can be added later without issues. I will use proper hall effect sensors rather than magnetic.
     
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  19. 16valver Forum Member

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    Next up for adjusting for bump steer.

    Basically this involved removing the springs (only helper springs mounted in pics, mains were removed) so that I could run through full compression and droop of the suspension to measure the change in toe angle, therefore replicating the unwanted changes in toe angle when hitting bumps in the track or flying over crests.

    Luckily I had made my gauge / board a few years back, so I just dug this out and got going. As it happens I must have got the length of the ball joint extenders about right as minimal spacing was required between the steering arms to get this to the optimal position.



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  20. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Guys, thanks for the replies, I was assuming there was a reason goings-on by the ace levels of work, just I didn't know what it was!
     

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