Moving as much stuff to the back of the car

Discussion in 'Track Prep & Tech' started by taks, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. taks CGTI Committee Paid Member

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    Hi
    What have people moved to the back of the car for the sake of a more simple engine bay and better weight distribution? Batteries is an obvious but what about electric PAS pumps, water pumps,expansion tanks,wiring,fuse boxes, seating position???????.........
     
  2. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I once saw an electric PAS pump under the rear seat tin on a Pug 206 racer. All a question of space.

    The real target has to be to shift weight to within the wheelbase?
     
  3. taks CGTI Committee Paid Member

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    So where the rear bench area is would be ideal (low and toward the rear)
    Do you think moving the PAS system toward the rear would have an effect on the steering seeing as the pipe runs would become longer?
     
  4. samfish

    samfish Forum Member

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    You end up having to add a bit of weight in cable when moving thing rearwards usually.

    I imagine the best things to move back a bit would be the engine and driver - being the heaviest. The could have a real difference.

    I reckon all the other things you could move back would only make a small difference to balance...... adjusting one of the spring platforms by a small amount would probably have the same affect - so I don't think it is worth it, unless you also need to make space.
     
  5. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    PAS fluid filler just poking above rear seat tin

    Agree, definitely to take into consideration.

    Obviously for clarity (others reading in), we're talking PSA group / Mercedes / other electric fluid pumps here, not the Corsa B electric column kits.
     
  6. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Well I'm right in the middle of this dilemma. I'm thinking of fitting the hydro electric PAS pump in the passenger foot well to keep the weight back and I don't want long pipe and cable runs to keep weight down.

    What are the regs regarding brake fluid reservoir and PAS pumps in the cabin, I don't seem to be able to find anything in the blue book saying you can't - any one know any different?

    I'm fitting bespoke engine mounts this year so may well take the opportunity to move the engine back by about 25mm while I'm at it (it's already 20mm lower but with a wet sump you can only go so low), we'll see how much time I get before the season starts!!
     
  7. danster Forum Addict

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    Tony, I would imagine there may well need to be a bulkhead between the power steering pump and hoses, or it enclosed in a box.
    High pressure fluid at hot temperatures sounds a bit ominous without suitable shielding to protect the driver.
    Possibly a good idea to phone a high level MSA technical commissioner or scrutineer for clarity before committing to location of the assembly.
     
  8. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The rule is out there somewhere. Very common practice to see fluids in containers in cars, encased inside metal outer containers. Dry sumps, brake fluid bottles etc.

    References seen: Pat Doran's Euro Rallycross Fiesta and Colin McRae's red Mk2 Escort, both with floor mounted pedal boxes, and cylinder reservoirs inside the car.
     
  9. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Reference found:

     
  10. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    a friend who tarmac rallys a quattro basically has all engine driven ancilaries, driven by the prop shaft behind the seats, which i thought was neat!! no good for a FWD golf tho!!

    is there an vw gear box that puts the starter further back, other than the auto?
     
  11. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    I think that sort of lines up with what I thought [common sense] :lol:

    Brake fluid reservoirs and pipes non pressure fluid at (in theory) normal temps = ok

    PAS fluid in pump and pipes at pressure and probably hot = not so ok!

    Gatan Hayot's Mk1 has the pump hung out at the front but he doesn't really have much space anywhere else! I think the PAS pump needs to be where the servo is on a std MK1, there is plenty of room to mount it there on mine I reckon. That keeps the weight right back and keeps the pipe lengths and cable runs down.

    I think I'll mount the brake reserviors in the cabin on the passanger side, to keep them away from the Engine bay heat (and further back). The battery can live in the passenger foot well, toss up between heavy cable runs and battery weight further back! I'm still wet sump so can't move the weight of the oil about [:^(]. I've got a light weight geared starter fitted so that can stay. I'm cutting most of the front end off in front of the axel so that weight dissappears along with a few other things, a few light weight removable panels will be going back (easy engine and transmission removal :thumbup:).

    I'm getting rid of the radiator expansion tank and going for a sealed radiator. I was thinking about a smaller rad (Polo or early MK1) but I have a bespoke Pace 16v rad fitted at the moment, but I'm not sure if the motor will get enough cooling, still looking in to the smaller rad idea but I have a cunning plan. The removal of the expansion tank and (possibly) smaller rad removes more weight from the wrong place :thumbup:

    Whilst it won't affect me (as it's all gone) there is the washer bottle and if still on Kjet go over to carbs and get rid of the metering head and filter housing, that's not light and right up front!.
     
  12. Hamish Forum Member

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    Just about everything can be moved from the engine bay depending on how much you are willing to spend!

    Radiator to the boot, dry sump the engine and get the oil tank moved back. Electric power steering. Alternator driven off the propshaft or run without one if only doing sprint/ hillclimbs. Battery can go anyware obviously, screen wash also. Its not too hard just to have the basic engine in the bay and nothing else.
     
  13. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    Think hard about this. By moving certain chunks of hardware, you will have to ADD weight.... Another view is minimise what you fit... eg. If you dont have time to look at the gauges when you are racing, don't fit em. Extreme. But I have seen this done to near perfection on an autocross mini.. (beat him tho..)
     

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