My Mars Red Mk1 - Thread REBOOT- P82

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by vw_singh, May 5, 2008.

  1. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Pre- Spa & Ring Trip Prep

    My thread has been dormant for long enough! I have had developments on the boil in the background since the return from my Spa & Ring trip double header almost a year ago so I will bring everything back up to date.

    The group 2 body kit and front splitter has provided the chassis with a much sharper turn in but I was slightly concerned with the rear end stability at speed now especially with the higher speed corners at the European circuits on the itinerary. So I purchased a generic rear wing from ebay and with the help of Sahib, we made some ally side plates to place the wing in the desired location. It sits level with the height of the roof and has the ability to have the attack angle adjusted if required.

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    As my car has developed, the spares and tools I carry have multiplied not to mention spare tyres for different conditions. Lugging all of this stuff while driving the mk1 across Europe didnt seem like a fun idea anymore so I decided to upgrade my daily wagon and rent a trailer to transport me and my friends to our destination. After mulling over various options I opted for a BMW estate with self-levelling rear suspension and plenty of grunt while not taking up the entire road for daily duties.

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    I did need to fit a tow bar though so I bought a detachable kit with dedicated electronics to keep the sensors happy and replaced the rear lower valence with an original trap door version so that its all hidden when not in use.

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    The rear panel received some paint at a later stage. I opted for a gloss black finish as I think it modernises the rear end.

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    With the transport sorted I took some additional driver tuition and took the test for the B+E driver classification. This means that I would be able to tow at a much higher weight capacity without fear of penalty. Plus it gave me some confidence with driving such a long train. Needless to say I passed the test.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  2. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Well wear with the Touring. What engine is it?
     
  3. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    It's a 535d sport so comes with an inline 6cyl twin turbo.
     
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  4. notenoughtime

    notenoughtime Moderator Moderator

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    Plenty of torque then :thumbup:
     
  5. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Classy.. sweet motor Gurds.
     
  6. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Yup it certainly is powerful enough.

    This is the car I passed my test in. TBH I'm happier with the BMW.

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    Gurds
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  7. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Spa Franchorchamps

    Eventually the trip week was upon us, I opted to rent a trailer for now so everything was loaded up and we got ready to set off. Wed be catching an afternoon ferry so there was no rush getting going in the morning.

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    I had Rambow and his brother Sahib accompanying me on the trip this time round. We headed off to Dover to catch our ferry. A drive over to Spa Franchorchamps to meet the Pinders for dinner. This was the first time visiting the circuit so to say we were excited is an understatement.

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    We arrived at Spa in the evening at met The Pinders and some other fellow Northloopers at a nice restaurant. It was a stones throw away from the circuit. After some food, we retired for the night.

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    Day 1 at Spa

    Up bright and early and headed over to the circuit to offload the car and attend the briefing.

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    We headed out onto a damp cold circuit to get to grips with the layout. Andy Jebson suggested taking my time to learn the circuit.

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    The circuit itself is exceptional and truly amazing to drive. The elevation changes and very high speed corners are very hard on the chassis and you can really feel the Gs on the long sweepers. Its a must on the bucket list if youve not visited it. We started to build up the pace as we ironed out the lines and braking points.

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    This was truly epic! The circuit had dried out and we were piling on the laps. I thought Id been braking hard but decided to experiment and found I could brake even more, the front end would just dig in harder and harder! This was very handy before the start/finish chicane and 1st hairpin and kept pushing until I found the limit as there was plenty of run-off in these areas.

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    The aero was certainly doing something as the car always felt planted. I did however, miss the precision that the ball joint extenders use to give my car so a little extra steering angle was needed in the slower corners than usual. It wasnt world ending but Im keen to revisit once I have the chassis back where Id like it.

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    A squashed beetle club was in attendance.

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    This was my personal favourite.

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    Nige joined us on the circuit with the Pinderwagen and we had some close laps. I purposely left my boost settings at 0.8bar to keep performance inline with what Nige runs and stop me from just using power to pull away on the straights. In fact it turned out that the poor aerodynamics of the mk1 made sure that Nige could cruise past at speeds over 120mph even when I was flat out! Lol. After that session I put the boost back to 1 bar instead.

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    I was still experimenting with lines. Honest.

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    They didn't believe me....

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    There was quite a steep hill on the circuit. Apparently it's famous.

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    As the day progressed and I started to notice a dull whine on long left handers, especially Pouhon. Ive not experienced such high speed long corners before and I guess the extra grip from wider tyres and aero was starting to stress the 1970s hub bearing design. After all, these are still mk1 gti sized bearings and hubs designed for a skinny road tyre, not 225 section modern R compounds. I had taken slicks along to try out but decided not to push my luck and stayed on the R888s. I spent the rest of the day lapping and investigating the whine as I hadnt identified which corner the bearing noise was coming from. Andy Jebson from Javelin lent an ear and suggested we changed the front right bearing. With not much time left, we checked the hub nuts and gave them a good turn which helped for a bit but the noise was coming back. The day was over so we got some takeaway pizza and went to contemplate driving on such a great circuit.

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    The car slept well in the F1 pit garages!

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  8. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Day 2 at Spa

    The next day started damp so we took the time in the morning to replace the suspect wheel bearing. Turns out the hub had been flexing inside the bearing and had tapered the end of the hub on the CV joint end. We had brought spares so we refreshed the parts with a makeshift press that Nige carries and headed back out. Noise had gone! Its something Ill need to address properly as I suspect this will become a regular issue otherwise.

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    The track was very damp but that didnt stop us from having some fun wet laps with the Pinderwagen. Track limits were explored numerous times. Hehehe.

    Sahib enjoyed some laps too.

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    And blagged some PAX laps in a Porsche Cayman GT4.

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    The track was drying out so normal pace resumed. The bearing grumble started to rear its ugly head again but was faint for now. The following day at the Ring would ensure less heavily loaded corners so I drove the rest of the day at Spa with some reserve in order to preserve and survive for the rest of the trip.

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    Video to follow soon.....

    We finished the day on a high, said our farewells and packed up ready for the drive over to the Nurburgring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  9. 1.8T_mk2

    1.8T_mk2 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Looking forward to the video! :thumbup:
     
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  10. 16valver Forum Member

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    Nice write up Gurds & looking forward to the video.

    I have now converted mine with late MK2 Gti hubs to get the larger VR6 bearing, MK4 drive flanges re-drilled for 4x100 and run VR6 drive shafts and CV's.
    The MK2 hub/upright needs machined down to fit inside the MK1 shock body, new caliper brackets needed as bolt spacing is different and the bolt spacing in the Mk1 shock body is different to the MK2 hub - for this you can modify the Mk1 shock body by elongating the top hole.

    The geo needs some thought for camber also as the mk2 hub on the mk1 adds a 'lot' of negative camber. So much so that I have maxed out my Intrax adjustable top mounts as well as the adjustment available on the shell (weld in Intrax plates), trying to lose the negative camber. I now have a range of approx. 0.8 deg negative to something like 6-7 degrees (not that you would ever want that much).

    Not tested yet as putting car back together but it means much bigger outer CV's and much bigger bearing - I broke about 4 CV's and a few driveshafts on the stock gti stuff.
     
  11. pascal77uk Paid Member Paid Member

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    Great write up gurds and glad to see its still in your garage !
     
  12. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Any issues with bump steer, or did you iron that out with extenders on the steering arm?

    I've been contemplating Polo 6n front struts on my mk1, as I'm using mk4/6n type top mounts. They have a mk2 style caliper mount.
     
  13. notenoughtime

    notenoughtime Moderator Moderator

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    Great write up looking forward to the video :thumbup:
     
  14. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    Excellent thread, I have also had problem with drive flanges getting a taper on the end on my mk1 racer, twice so far. Unrating everything is a good option. Keep it coming
    Jon
     
  15. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Thanks guys!

    Remember this is all in the past. I've already got a solution assembled and ready to go on. But you'll need to wait for the update to keep the thread chronological. [:D]

    Gurds
     
  16. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    The Nurburgring

    We followed the Pinders across the remainder of Belgium into South Germany and then into the Eifel Mountains for our next destination. If youve never been, this means passing through various scenic surroundings and meticulously clean quaint German villages which in itself is a very pleasant journey.

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    We drove past the main entrance of the GP circuit as any pilgrim should to take the obligatory, if somewhat clich, Ring picture. This got photobombed.

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    We checked into our B&B and headed down to The Pistenklause Restaurant for some grub and to oogle at the exotic machinery that is always dotted around the village.

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    This was the first time doing a Trackday type event at the Nurburgring so we were up bright and early the next morning and headed off to the Ring car park to sign on.

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    Here we suffered our first stumbling block. Id paid for my place on this trip with a special Christmas deal price so hadnt looked twice at the booking. At sign on, I wasnt on the list!! Shocked and now slightly worried I desperately looked through my emails for a confirmation. Eventually I found a Paypal receipt for which the TDO then apologised and signed me on. Phew!

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    After an entertaining briefing I met Dale Lomas of Bridge to Gantry fame.

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    Karan from Northloop was also here in his Silvia and with his tribe.

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    At Spa, Niges car had suffered a terminal failure which left him without a car for the Ring so he had kindly offered to sit in with me early on in the day to share his knowledge of the track and help fast track my learning. After all I only had around 50 laps under my belt, with the last trip of the Ring being under NA power many years ago now.

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    The first hour of lapping was basically a sighting session for people to acclimatise to the conditions and circuit. We headed out and started to warm up the car. We got as far as Hatzenbach where I realised something was wrong. Every time I took a fast right hand corner, the steering would hit a false limit which meant I couldnt add any more steering angle! By Flugplatz Nige even yelled Turn more!. Early bath time. We reduced pace heavily and trundled back into the car park. This was a very long, slow lap.

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    Thinking cap time. We obviously couldnt continue like this so took the car back to the B&B to investigate. Nige, Sahib, Matty, Ram, Louise, Cat and our hosts at the B&B all chipped in and helped to try and get the car back up and running. Lou and Cat setup a picnic before wed even had time to think!

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    Thoughts of switching over cars and using the BMW estate were discussed but decided to take a look at the mk1 first. We started on a path to identify the issue using various techniques to load up the steering.

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    Nothing obvious to the eye. There was no choice but to strip out the steering rack! This involved removal of the flat floor, various brackets and parts including the turbo downpipe and pulling off manoeuvres that even a contortionist would be proud of. Eventually we managed to coax out the rack.

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    With the rack stripped down to component level, all that was found was some dirty grease and debris on the pinion teeth. Maybe the rack was being heated by the turbo parts and sticking? The rack and pinion preload was reduced a touch to try to mitigate the issue. The BMW still felt like a good option at this point. Nige spotted the steering knuckle looked marked as though it had been binding. The offending area was filed to give a little more clearance and then we re-assembled the lot. By now it was gone 3pm!

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    Ok back out to the barriers with Nige with everyone else not seen a lap, Sahib opted for a passenger lap with Karan in his awesome Nissan Silvia.

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    Meanwhile we kept lapping...

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    Out onto track and under the Bilstein Bridge, the lower steering preload was immediately noticeable with a larger dead spot in the centre position. This was far from ideal but without any time left we pushed on. The initial steering issue had gone away completely now with only the sloppy feel left, it would have to do. We did 3 laps on the bounce with big improvements being made on each lap. Small things make a big difference here and with the extra performance this all happened much quicker than Id experienced before. The turn ins were earlier than I expected on a number of corners so I tried to react more quickly. Nige thinking I wasnt responding decided to yell Turn in earlier than usual. Resulted in me putting wheels on the grass. Eeeek!

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    I pulled back into the carpark and had to take a moment to take it all.

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    Rambow finally got his chance the jump in for some laps around 3.45pm, poor guy had waited patiently and wanted his first laps to be in my car. We completed an uneventful but exciting lap and pulled back into the carpark. Rambow looked a little disappointed and when I asked why, the response was he expecting a flying lap including the main straight. Oops! We headed back out for what was set to be the quickest lap Id ever done until the red flag came out near the top of the hill. At 4pm the circuit was closed and our day had ended. This was the 5 most expensive laps of my life ever at the Ring.

    [video=youtube;2ea0d76KBSA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ea0d76KBSA[/video]

    Tourisfahrt vs Trackday. Up until now I have only ever done tourist days with this being the first Trackday experience. Tourist days give the luxury of being able to turn up and lap at your leisure for as many laps as your budget allows opposed to sticking to a time boxed event and paying a fixed price regardless of the number of laps you squeeze in. However that said, the lack of motorcycles and very slow traffic was a refreshing experience with much better driving etiquette all round from the attendees. My unfortunate misfortune lead to my lack of lapping this time round but on the whole I prefer the trackday event as its better suited to my car and pace now.

    There's always plenty of exotic machinery at the Ring, even on the trackdays.

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    We had one more nights stay in the area so we headed down to the shops for some memorabilia and took a trip over to Pinocchios Pizzeria for some grub. As usual we were duped by the waiter into ordering more food than we needed and ended up with ridiculously large portions to eat!

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    The drive back was easy and without issue. The BMW touring had proven to be a great choice with effortless towing capabilities and great stability at speed. Id certainly recommend it.

    I shall revisit these awesome circuits again but for now, we head home....

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    Next up, upgrading the transmission and powertrain, yes again!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  17. 51ngh Forum Member

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    This was an awesome trip... cant wait to go again.

    Hurry up with the updates already lol

    sahib
     
  18. jamesa Forum Junkie

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    Great effort getting the rack `fixed` ... :clap:
     
  19. notenoughtime

    notenoughtime Moderator Moderator

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    Shame you only got a few laps in but looked awesome :thumbup:

    Eagerly waiting for the next instalment
     
  20. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Front Uprights, Wheel Bearings and Ball Joint Extenders

    Bearing issues highlighted at Spa meant I was on the hunt for an upgrade. I think the extra grip from the Aero and wider tyres contributing to the bearings and flanges suffering. I first had a flange failure in 2015 and now again showing wear at Spa. Initially I looked into boring out the mk1 uprights to take a larger mk2/mk3 golf bearing and flanges but wall thickness of the housing concerns were raised by many. I looked into the possibility of running late mk2/mk3 4 stud uprights instead. This with coincide with fitting a new set of weld in ball joint extenders at the same time.


    Mk1 GTi wheel bearing dimensions.
    Outer Diameter: 64mm
    Inner Diameter: 34mm

    Late Mk2 GTi/Mk3 VR6 bearing dimensions.
    Outer Diameter: 72mm
    Inner Diameter: 40mm

    To fit mk2 uprights, the following things would need to be addressed.

    Use mk2 front shocks or machine the upright to accept mk1 shocks. I opted to machine the uprights.
    New caliper brackets would need to be made.
    Adapt control arms to fit mk2 balljoint extension.
    Work out length of ball joint extender to suite bump steer requirement

    Time to take the old girl apart again.

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    To begin with, I needed to mount the hubs as they are so I had the machine shop do what was required to make them fit. The spine on a mk1 upright is narrower than a mk2 item and the mounting hole offset is also different. These were machined to my requirements and then offered up to the car. They fit!

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    The steering arm pickup is much lower on the mk2 upright which would lead to massive bumpsteer if left unaddressed but as I was using custom length ball joint extenders, this could be dealt with. I used a long bolt mounted to the hub and mounted it to the control arm through a spherical bearing. This was then checked on the bumpsteer gauge. The length of the bolt was adjusted via a nut either side of the spherical bearing and tested again and again till all the bumpsteer had gone. This length was given to the company making the extenders who then supplied a kit made to my spec.

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    Alongside this, a good friend kindly offered to model the front geometry of my car in CAD to help work out the optimum settings. I took various measurements as requested and handed them over. Turns out that the scrub radius was still on the wrong side of zero with too much steering angle inclination and not enough castor despite my best efforts to keep it ideal. With the help of the simulation, I now know what else needs to be done in order to achieve more ideal settings. This should all result in and even better chassis. Shows that things can always be improved.

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    So with bumpsteer sorted, I placed an order with NIC Engineering http://www.nic-engineering.co.uk/ who supplied a very well machined set built to my requirements. I used extenders made to fit a mk2 19mm upright with a bearing carrier to fit the mk1 control arm. Result!

    Please Note: Adam of NIC has now setup under the name of Noath Engineering. http://noath.co.uk/.


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    These were trial fitted and the last bumpsteer check done to be sure before they were handed over to my favourite workshop for welding in. The base of the hub needed a little chamfering to clear the radius on the extender pins and then the whole lot was preheated before TIG welding together with the correct grade filling rods.

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    Im rather happy with how they have come out. Final stage is to fit new bearings before giving them a lick of paint, ready to go on the car.

    For the brake brackets I dusted off the PC and fired up CAD. I replicated my current mk1 brackets but with mk2 dimensions which are now in hand with the workshop to be machined out by the CNC.

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    These should be back from the workshop any day now.
    The final choice lies with using mk2 or vr6 hubs and CV joints. The VR6 has a larger CV joint and spline compared to the mk2 whereas the mk2 hub has a thicker wall between the spline and bearing area.

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    Here you can see the thickness difference of the spline area of the hub.

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    Late mk2

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    I'm leaning towards the mk2 ones currently as these flanges usually shear across the face where the spline area meets the hub. With all being well ,this should be the end of pesky flange taper and bearing failures.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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