need to beat type r's

Discussion in '16-valve' started by 85mk2golf1.3, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. 82erGTI Forum Member

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    yeah the thread did get a bit cluttered...

    But you have been given some mk2-with-abf advice too i think.
    The way i see it, and indeed some others in this thread, with an atmosferic abf engine it's not going to happen without mega spending to make the engine an all-out screamer
    OR
    putting your mk2 on a diet and doing the "normal" mods to the engine to achieve around 170 bhp

    OR you could go to the forced induction route: supercharge if you just want to beat type-r's and keep a linear power delivery, turbocharge if you're thinking the more power the better...

    And then do some suspension & braking upgrades too of course...

    hope that helps (bare in mind this is simplifying things a bit)...
    (edit: oh and i'm comparing to the integra dc2 here, which type R model is it you want to beat ?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  2. 85mk2golf1.3 Forum Member

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    well i have full coilover kit already along widetrack and 96 mk3 gti brake setup (280mm)....so as regards braking and handling i tink im pretty much sorted.......i wont be stripping interior as the car is a 5door but thought someone might know of some decent engine mods to make car a bit quicker....like a specific cam...aftermarket management etc.
     
  3. sambo Paid Member Paid Member

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    I still recon with simple mods to the abf engine in a mk2 extracting 170-180 bhp is not a problem or expensive

    As the mk2, even the 5 door, is about 150-200 kg lighter than a ctr you will be up there with him in power to weight ratious

    Your mods to suspension and brakes will work very well on a mk2 so thats good to

    You will not be far behind a Ctr, especially if it goes out of v-tec rev band and falls back into gutless lower rpm band with hopless torque figures

    If you want to beat Ctr than folowing mods to engine will do the trick

    Headwork to improve flow...400+
    Pistons to raise the compression....400
    286 or bigger cams to make the above work well....400+
    Throttle bodies kit to make all of the above work in harmony....1200+
    And finally management to control it all....700+
    Nicely designed 4 branch and exhaust to help gases out....500+
    220+ bhp is than yours with 160+ lb/ft of torque

    Downside.... money involved!

    Obviously cheaper ways of doing it if you can do work your self and are good at sourcing second hand items

    Or stick a 20vt in it with about 230 bhp and 200 lb/ft of torque

    Either way it will be the case of see you later Ctr (probably)
     
  4. Billy Whizz New Member

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    Dont waste your time and money......

    I'm fortunate enough to own a MK2 16V and a 05 Civic Type R, and unless you have very deep pockets there's no way you will outrun a CTR.

    My Golf is still the better car, had it since new, not as quick as the Honda, so what?

    Nowt wrong with the CTR, great car, just not as good as the Golf.

    Leave well alone IMO, you may well sacrifice reliability/driving pleasure/wallet in pursuit of a few more BHP, you'll need to get yourself over 200bhp to be serious about the challenge.

    Just my 2p worth
     
  5. fthaimike Forum Addict

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    & if he spent money on his car? & so much.....
     
  6. sambo Paid Member Paid Member

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    Not sure i know what you mean[:s]
     
  7. paul_c Forum Member

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    Put simply, it would be an unfair comparison, to compare a 6000 Honda Civic with a 1500 Mk2 Golf GTI. Now, if you were to spend an extra 4500 on the Golf, which would be the better car?
     
  8. Southy_GTI Forum Member

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    What does a 'stage 1' pulsar normally put down at the wheels?
     
  9. dan_gti2004 Forum Member

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    I find the best way is with an anti tank missile launcher [!]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. mk2bal Forum Member

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    2dubnick- where did you get that honda eater pic? I want 1 for the bk window!! Also guys what about the b16a crx vti vtec. A force to be reckoned with. By far the fastest n/a 1.6 going. A mate had a 1.8 bottom end, loadsa headwork etc, and it would tail a mates pulsar at ridiculous speeds, and absolutely ruin most other cars when driven right. He was always flat out in it as it was an awesome handler, that made it v v hard for anyone to have a go.. Got a mate on his 3rd 'teg now, and the grip levels and cornering 'g' you feel, even as a passenger is astounding. The front digs in so hard he can powerslide roundabouts etc in it pretty damn well, as if its rear wheel drive. If we have a back road blast I'm all over the road in the mk2, using the full width, clippin apexs as best as possible, on the edge of my seat hanging on, he's harnessed in, sitting back,nice and composed not going over the white lines at all,the car jus keeps on gripping and turning.If only a mk2 shell fitted on an itr platform..
     
  11. 2dubnick Forum Junkie

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    No idea where I got that honda eater pic from, dont even remember posting it, thou once my car will beat type r's Im getting one made for my rear window.

    Iv just been out playing with a type r in my 2.0 16v (6a) Mk2 stripped out with one bucket seat, I can keep with it ok deep into 3 figues but it does pull a couple of meters on me, against the same civic in my stage 2 cupra I can pull a couple of meters on it but really it keeps up fine, quick cars and to beat one properly you need more power than most realize.

    Not convinced by CRX's, at Oulton they got in the way alot when I was in my leon and that thing sucks in the corners, being young kids driving them they both needed blue flags to get the hint aswell, thou thats just typical honda drivers in my experience.
     
  12. fthaimike Forum Addict

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  13. Southy_GTI Forum Member

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    A built B18 would be around 180 - 190hp at the wheels. In a 900kg shell that would go well!
     
  14. LregG

    LregG Paid Member Paid Member

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    What's the civic's 0-60 time? My stripped Mk2 abf can do it in 6.8 on public roads on Yokohama parada's
     
  15. Southy_GTI Forum Member

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    0 - 60 do people still argue about that?

    If you want to talk about straight line sprints its the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile times that count.
     
  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    That would be a marginal improvement over standard then + ~ 130lbft tops!
     
  17. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    A sorted MK2 ABF on K-Jet can out run an EP series Civic type R to vmax.
     
  18. Southy_GTI Forum Member

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    190 to the wheels is around 220 at the fly wheel / crank.
    Yup B series can be gutless off cam.

    K series is a different story it has variable intake cam timing (up to 25 degrees advance / retard)

    This gives it optimal low and mid rpm torque.

    Its a bit pointless getting into a willy waving match regarding motor swapped cars. A 2.4 bottom end swap (from the Accord) is the k-series equivalent and that makes 300hp with the right cams.

    I love dubs, but honda engines are pretty special.
     
  19. mk2bal Forum Member

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    As much as the right honda does appeal to me, when I see another decent or similar mk2 to mine go past I know I'm sitting pretty where I am. I think we need some 'thank hitler for volkswagen' stickers. Though it may seem a little out of order and subject the car to damage?
     
  20. Southy_GTI Forum Member

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    Are you serious?
     

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