OEM MK4 management wiring => Mk1/2/3 harness install FAQ (Now with added dieselness!)

Discussion in 'Engines' started by rubjonny, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    109 is earth triggered by the ECU, which is what you wanted to do with the emerald :) 30/32 are ignition triggered
     
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  2. Nightroamer Forum Member

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    Perfect thanks matey
     
  3. Mdvrt New Member

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    Awesome thread been reading it for ages.
    I'm converting a bde loom to mk3 golf.
    Looking at t10/2 I dontseem to have that pin from the pin t121/81 to t10/2
    Not a biggie but would be good if there was another way of getting the mpg signal
    Thanks
     
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    you can always try adding a pin, you'll have lots of spare wires once you've finished. The pin holders pull out the back of the plug once to slide out the fat purple lock tab, then the pins pop out easy just need a pick/pin type tool to release the barb and they slide out
    plus all the empty spots in the ECU plugs have new terminals in so you can run a fresh wire in poke it thru the rubber boot then use something flat to push the wire into the pin jaws similar to old BT phone socket terminals. Just make sure the wire is the right size
     
  5. F33T New Member

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    I have a full BAM TT loom and looking at fitting in to a G60 Corrado shell I have just picked up. I have the interior and headlight loom, as well as a load of CE2 fusebox plugs (pretty sure everyone out of a mk3 something or other from a good few years ago), and a full pd100 car loom as well.

    Do I need the specific engine loom for the G60 Corrado (bit of a shame to cut up) or can I utilise the fuse box ends and just make up a loom from there? I know its a bit more work, but I would rather not buy then cut up a good known loom.

    Read the original post from 2013 and will trawl through the remaining 20 pages, but would like to know just now so I can make a start in making a CE2 loom for the car, to then splice in to, or whether to buy a loom and hack it up.

    Thanks in Advance.
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    You can make it up from loom tails no problem, the PD loom will have all the spare copper you could need just need the grommets for the bulkhead. or you could get any manual mk2 golf ce2 loom that'll do you for grommets and wiper wiring etc, might be a bit long for wiper so trim back and re-terminate. whatever works for you :)

    other handy thing about having some kind of donor donor is it gives you a rough template to work to, but you can just lay out a couple strategic wires in your engine bay and tape together to get you a template then take it inside to finish the job
     
  7. F33T New Member

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    I would also assume that the bam install will be quite similar to aum, as wideband and me7.5? But missing sai and other bits and Bob's?
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Yeah loom is very similar, no SAI and it has EGT added plus the throttle body is on the other side of the inlet so loom is slightly different on the routing. apart from that not much difference, certainly from a conversion side of things they are same really just a bit less to chop out and defeat on the ecu
     
  9. Leigh ivison New Member

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    Hi rubjonny i have a 1987 k-jet mk2 will it be easier if i get a digifant harness to make up my mk2 1.8t auq harness?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Answer is kinda I guess but not really, it depends :lol:

    main thing the digi has but kjet doesn't is a pin in D/13 for fuel relay trigger, but the pins are easy to get and cheap so no real advantage.

    They do also have plug R fso you can make use of the ECU relay slot 1 on the fusebox but not really needed since the AUM/AUQ DBW loom already has an ECU relay which I would keep. Just pull the live feed to it from plug T6 add a fuse inline and pop to the battery. As I mention in the guide the relay box has 3 spare fuse holders so if you get some standard timer pins you can make use of them
     
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  11. madmanluke New Member

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    Hi Jonny, I messaged you privatley but i guess the information here is far more use to everyone as a whole. Thank you for keeping just about every conversion going on the road! Certainly those that have been involved for many years are very appreciative of all the information you share! Genuine wizard!

    I am wiring a BFH mk4 R32 DBW with ecu relay into CE2 against this guide. It's some thing im familiar with as i had done a 24v 2.8 conversion successfully (although this ecu does not have have a ECU relay). I am confused about the ECU relay situation also. I have fuel but not firing and now stuck. I have relay number 429 and given it 12v to pin 87 from memory as per an earlier post on here and the relay will then click under the turn of the key, but still not firing. I feel like i am missing something simple but unsure where it is at the moment. There is mention of relay 109 but i'm not sure if that relates to replacing relay 429, or actually is required at the CE2 fuse boxes somewhere?



    Thanks!
     
  12. swiftkid New Member

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    How have you got the relay wired? If it's clicking its engaging but from a quick google it's similar to relay 109 but not the same, it looks usable for the purpose. I'm sure RubJonny will correct me but if you wired +ive to 30 & 86a, then t121/3 to 87 and t121/23 to 85 that should work.
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    how do :)

    if you want to keep the stock ecu relay box you leave relay box wiring pretty much as is, just give the T6/4 pin a fused permanent live feed as per the guide. on the relay you should have 12v to pins 30 and 86 from T6/4, pin 87 goes to the big 2 pin plug which then feeds coilpacks and ECU pin 3. Pin 85 is earth switched by the ecu pin 23.

    What I do is drag the T6/4 wire out of the loom and over inside the relay box, pop the terminal into one of the empty fuse sockets. then add another wire to the other side of the fuse holder fed direct from the battery live terminal, drop a fuse in and jobs a goodun. the live pin T6/4 also feeds the ecu with permanent live as well to pin 62, leave the factory wire crimp in place this saves you a job.

    on a car with an ecu/coilpack power relay t6/1 needs to be a straight switched live otherwise the ecu will not trigger the relay and you wont get any coilpack power or power to pin 3. On a CE2 fusebox you could use G1/4 or G2/4, or if you like can feed it from ECU relay pin G1/10 and use a 30 or 32 relay in slot 3 to power it up.

    a 109 relay is an ecu earth switched type, you could use this instead of the 429 relay to get it working you wire G1/7 to ECU pin 23 and your power output to G1/10. I'm not keen though as I worry G1/10 isn't man enough to power ECU and coilpacks...
     
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  14. madmanluke New Member

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    Thanks - i'll process this all again with it all in front of me this evening, but to clarify, by keeping the standard relay box, you mean just keeping the relay loom that is attached to the ecu loom, then yes i have kept that and just tied it all close to the ecu. If not, then no, I’ve literally kept the relay holder and it’s associated wires with the thick black/ purple wires/ecu trigger etc and just leaving in the loom as is, uncut etc.I'm not interested in moving it to the fuse box.

    I know I do have T6/4 wired to G2/9 as a 12v+ Since the relay wasn’t clicked like this I’d assume there’s a fuse gone or the output of g2/9 is coming from a relay I don’t have in my ce2 fuse box? That said, if I have manually dropped 12v direct from the battery into pins 30 and 86 of the relay then I should be good? Pin 85 of relay should still be and appears to be working fine since it’s the standard relay that came with the car so the ecu should be giving it the correct switch.

    T6/1 is wired to G1/4 which again would suggest that this is working since the ecu is triggering the relay?
     
  15. madmanluke New Member

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    Yeah i'm a little stuck here. It looks like the ECU relay is actually switching absolutley fine. Every thing seems correct as a list I have ticked off the following:
    1. wired +ive to 30 & 86a - Correct, and confirmed. This is getting its power from T6/4 - CE2 G2/9 and is a good 12.5v.
    2. then t121/3 to 87 and t121/23 to 85 that should work. - - Correct,12v at ecu pin 3 when cranking .I've chased out 87 and this obviously goes to the injectors and I have tested that i get 12.5v when the key is on right at the coil packs.
    3. t6/1 is getting 12v from G1/4 fine.
    So looks like the issue isnt the relay after all... i've wired in the OBD and its not throwing any faults...

    Defintely no spark. 100% get voltage right to the end of the plug going to the coil packs, but with a spark plug resting on the head i get nothing. Head and engine all grounded properly. I’ve also swapped out the crank position sensor with no joy.

    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  16. madmanluke New Member

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    Resolved. As usual. A very simple case of a bad coil earth from t14a/7. Moved it else where and all good.
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Good stuff, I always recommend you run T14a/7 dierect to the battery as well as the 2 earth pins on the ecu :thumbup:

    Also G2/9 is a bit weedy to run the coilpack relay power from, its also unfused. G2/9 fine for ecu permanent live and is factory for later vr6, but if you're looking to run 6 coilpacks plus main ecu power I would put a fuse inline with it and feed from Y spade, or go direct to battery and put a fuse inside the relay box :)
     
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  18. madmanluke New Member

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    Moved to Y spade under your recommendation. I do have another strange issue that I now can’t track down. The ecu has the immobiliser defeat done already and it starts and runs smoothly.

    However, anywhere between 10 seconds to 30 seconds it stop running. This isn’t like its spluttering out or another issue. The engine stops running as if someone has turned the key off. I can hear all the fuel pump and coil relays clicking on stopping as you would expect when you turn the car off normally.

    the annoying thing is it’s not consistent. It run different amounts of time before turning off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  19. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Do the clocks go dead at the same time or do all the warning lights come on as.if it's stalled? Listen out for the fuel pump as well, does it run on for a few seconds or.cut straight out?

    Crank sensor would be high on the list they can start to fail intermittently, also worth checking diagnostics
     
  20. madmanluke New Member

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    Nothing coming up on diagnostics. The ususal codes for things i've deleted out but havent had them coded out of the ecu yet (i.e 4wd controller, SAI, Charcol, secondary llambdas etc). all stuff as far as I am aware can throw a fault but not cause running issues.

    The clocks give me all the warning lights as if its stalled. Fuel pump relay defintley turns off, but i can feel the fuel pump relay clicking as soon as it cuts out as you would expect. Its imediate also, it doesnt continue to run for a short period after.

    I've already had the crank sensor out since i thought this may have been my original issue. I'll pull the one from my 2.8 24v one and drop that in and try. Surely i wouldnt be able to get it to start at all if the sensor was that bad it only allowed for a few seconds of running?
     

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