Scruffy red MK2 Golf Road Rally car

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by TonyB, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yes, only place to fit it as the linkage sits between the TB's. Works fine there and simple to bend to shape. I did if off the engine as I strip the blocks of all the parts when building an engine inc. dipstick tub, water and oil way core plugs etc. to get it sorted ready to be build, but it would be easy enough to do fitted.
     
  2. daNpy Forum Member

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    Damn I should have done that too, but I am always worried that bending a tube can cause a kink.
     
  3. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    I find steel more dependable (to a point), its copper that tends to be tricky to read as its so easy to bend, and the point of failure is harder to feel.
     
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    you can get tube inserts to help prevent the tube from kinking, but if its only a small bend you're fine usually
     
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  5. daNpy Forum Member

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    I've already bent it slightly, but outwards so it's between the ITBs. The idea was to put it between the trumpets, but with the airbox that kind of stopped.
    The problem with bending is, when the kink is there you know you've gone to far. Previously I've bent it by applying a force and moving my hand from the bottom towards the top of the tube, so there would be a curve and not a kink [:D]

    Over the winter I'll see what I can do. I've even modified the tip of the dipstick as it is near the throttle linkage now, not ideal.
     
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  6. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Had a day off so fitted in fabricating a few bits for the 02a gearbox. First up was the new mount, just a quick simple design, bit on the heavy side, but didn't want to stress the box with any flex so went for a solid section to avoid stress. Also made a longer dogbone link to move the fixing point closer to the box. The 02a also has bolt through mounts for the chassis mount, rather than the threaded mounts in an 02J, and also had to make a spacer for the Wosp starter as I'd machined it to suit the last set up.

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  7. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    So here is a little development work. I'm using GP4 Escort engine mounts as the basis of my engine mount kit, and they come with HD rubber mounts. The issue is in a GP4 escort the engine is longitudinally mounted, so the forces are at 90 degrees to the bush, in a transverse mount the forces are going along the centre of the bush, and whilst they seem like hard rubber, when you put 250bhp through them on stick tyres in and out of hairpins etc. the engine moves....a lot.

    So the initial change was to add 3mm steel washers that sat between the rubber and the raised part of the chassis mount, however in use the force eventually bends the washer till it touches the main plate of the mount, allowing approx. 6mm movement each way. To eliminate this I got hold of some engineering grade nylon bar in 50mm dia. and machined some spacers out of it to sit between the washers and the mount body thus eliminant any front or back movement.

    Bit of a pig to fit as I had to drop the engine/box again. So undo the dogbone mount, lower one side as far and the exhaust/ITB's would allow and squeeze them and the washers in and get the engine/box back in place. Easier said than done!

    The nylon is really nice to machine, so in future I think I'll make the bushes out of it, and use plain sided mounts, rather than the GP4 Escort type.

    You can see the before pic above.....working in the wet again, the weather seems to know when its ricked me and I'm past the point of no return....and gets me lol

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  8. Tristan

    Tristan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Bloody heck, you'd never have thought it'd bend the washers there!
     
  9. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    No, me neither.

    I noticed that the cam belt has a slight witness mark where it had been rubbing slightly, so was looking to see what it could be. Nothing was touching...but could see where the washers had bent allowing the engine to move enough for it to touch the engine mount bolt under load! Took the bolt out an shortened it as a temp measure but not good.

    On a hard core hillclimb/sprint car I'd solid mount the engine, but as this is an all-round sort of car plus I drive it to the events quite often, I decided to use rubber as less fatigue for the driver and components.

    As I said might make a set in Nylon as a compromise.
     
  10. daNpy Forum Member

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    When you change the motor mounts to a hard material like the nylon, be aware the vibrations of the motor will be transferred to the next weakest part. But you'll probably know that already. Like you, I prefer to have at least something that dampens in the mount, rather than having it fixed-fitted :)

    Do you have some overview pics of the engine bay? Via PB is also fine :)
     
  11. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    IMG_20200628_164341_resized_20210623_085528216.jpg IMG_20200628_164517_resized_20210910_014130347.jpg
     
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  12. daNpy Forum Member

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    So, long inlet manifolds, just like me. Throttlebodies look the same length as well, but you don't have the 10 cm deep airbox like I have.
    Is the radiator lower (below the ITBs) on the inlet side, or how do you get them to get cool air, so short after the radiator, which looks even further back than I have.
     
  13. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Few pics I had kicking about from under the bonnet above.
     
  14. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yes, the inlet/ITB length is set to the cams etc. by the trumpets. The TWM manifolds are works spec, so work well, nice castings. All ported to the head and ITB's, which are 48mm - came off a 2.4 warrior motor actually.

    The radiator stops at the side of the ITB's, not under them, but goes down a long way, won't fit properly with the std front cross member. So I run a works spec front front cross member set up as you don't use a front engine mount with the works engine mounts. Doesnt need a huge radiator, this works fine, but has very well ducted setting to sit in. Oil cooler under the air shroud. Its got a large filter fitted to the ITB's. The shroud stops the heat from the rads and the engine getting to the inlet area, plus directs the cool air in over the oil cooler rad - also shrouds the air temp sensor to give a consistent reading based on the air going in to the motor not under bonnet temps.

    Actually runs too cool at presently, odd. I've played with the thermostat a few times, genuine VW one in there at present, but still runs too cool. Only get up to temp on the dyno really when really under load constantly.
     
  15. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Few pics of the clutch set up I've just taken off....his is going on to my No.1 Hillclimb car now its been developed and tested. There were some comments on other media that the lack of traction in the vids a page or two back was clutch slip. Whist I was very sceptical, never say never, so was interested to see the clutch as if that were clutch slip it would have been like a rainbow colour!

    Clearly this clutch hasn't been slipping, which is not a surprise as its a twin plate paddle job and brand new, rated at something like 450 Nm as I recall. However there could have been interference in the actuating mechanism soemwhere, but all was good as suspected....ye of little faith :-)

    Ultra light weight set up, I think the flywheel is under 4kgs and the cover is magnesium I believe, and pretty copper plates!! .....what ever it is pretty light, half the weight of the light weight G60 flywheel and helix paddle clutch I've just fitted.

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  16. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    All great stuff, very interesting and applicable to what I play with too.
    One small comment, if I may be so bold.
    Having a solid dogbone mount would worry me, as I race rally on loose surfaces, as well as tarmac.
    With no 'give' any excessive forces would give the gearbox casing a very hard time
    Keep it up, and thanks for sharing...
    Jon
     
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  17. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hi Jon, yes I pondered that. Not so bothered with the 02J std mount, as VW/Audi designed that to take a load, so it will be it a strong place, however my new mounting position was a little more remote from the main strength of the gearbox body, however as I'm using an ABF cradle to take the bell housing load back to the block, so I was less worried when I had a good look at it all. I am using a nylon mount one end of the dogbone. Its a GP4 Escort 4 link bar end, so has some give. You can't feel it in hand, but I'm sure it moves under load, enough to take the sting out.

    I also looked at Motorbikes, F1, F2 F3 etc and they all use solid mounts. Admittedly they are not subjected to the same sorts of on/off loads that rally and hill-climb cars get, but on balance I think it will be ok. We'll see lol.

    I have to sort the cam drive engine mount next, repair [flatten] the washers and fit the nylon spacers, then repair the alternator, as that's failed. It don't think it like 9k the revs lol. I have a new geared down version that is currently installed on my dummy engine setup in the workshop. I've an electric water pump conversion developed that's sitting on that ready to drop in to the MK1 set up, but I made sure the drive belt pulley sat in the same position as the rally car so they were interchangeable.....good planning for once!!
     
  18. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    On that subject, this engine will come out at some time soon (ish) to go in the MK1, with a few more developments planned for that when it out. I'll probably drop this engine in then........back to 8v [:D][8D] 8VFTW......... Its an ex hotrod motor I picked up that needs a new home, sure I put some pics up somewhere. Few bits I'll change, but the basic engine looks to have all the right bits. I expect no less than 180bhp. Probably put it on management and ITB's rather than the carbs.....but may use the Webers as they are big choke 45's so she's good for 200bhp, maybe just run the ignition on an ECU. Not decided, could even fit a plenum and run in road rally class. That's not just yet though, bit more testing to do. IMG_20220505_174235_resized_20220902_083522477.jpg IMG_20220507_163152_resized_20220902_083523201.jpg IMG_20220507_163214_resized_20220902_083522838.jpg IMG_20220515_174327_resized_20220902_083522160.jpg IMG_20220522_134651_resized_20220902_083521320.jpg
     
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  19. daNpy Forum Member

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    Regarding the dipstick; as the 16v head has the coolant outlet between cylinder 2 and 3, you can't get it up there between the manifolds. More bends are required to get it elsewhere, but the dipstick is a flat strip so chances are it won't go down anymore.
     
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  20. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    You can blank off the front middle coolant take off and use the one on the end. I have done this on one motor
    (with advise from on here) and it works
    Jon
    VW even make the blank... I ordered a few, for 'stock'
     
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