Bloody Nora! What happened? Was someone trying to pull a fast one on you or the previous owner? It's gonna be some beast with the engine overhaul.
Nah, I don't think so mate. I think it's just a few underlying issues that have come to a head combined with running poor mapping over a period of time. The car was winning races before I got my hands on it so I'll put it down to bad luck, no point getting stressed about it. I was told some years ago that when you buy a race car there are two rules. Rule 1: expect to rebuild the engine. Rule 2: expect to rebuild the gearbox. Everything else after that is a lottery! I had always planned to do a rebuild, just not quite so soon. Upside is I should be able to go into next season with some proper testing hours under the belt rather than doing the work over winter and hoping it's all ready/good for the start of the next season. Latest is not good news, on dyno until early hours of this morning and car is still wanting to run lean which is not good. Nothing obvious causing it so it's going to be a bit of a random and lengthy process to eliminate that issue but we wont give up until it's running at it's best. Onwards and upwards...
Looking good with the Vinyl Annoying about the engine.I`m sure you are monitoring fuel pressure on the dyno ? When I first added the Turbo and the pump couldn`t cope, the pressure dropped off at high revs when it went lean, even with the injectors fully open. Hope you get it sorted soon !
Thanks Nige. Fuel pressures are all good. Don't think it's a mechanical issue, think it's software issue but odd thing is it's doing it on two ECU's.
Hi. I'm in the same boat as you but 2 years later ???? I recently bought also a supercopa mk2. Besides lexan windows, the car just came with 2nd ecu tuned for 98ron, 7200rpm rev and a small bump on boost. Previous owner said that on dyno made 350hp. ???? First thing that i done was a compression test. With coolant at 40c degree showed 150psi on 4 cylinders. Bentley manual says that the test can be made +30c degree. 150psi is almost at the minimum value accepted (145psi) but being all equal is a strong point that make me to believe that could either be due to low engine temp or carbon built on valves that don't allow proper sealing. During the 10min of test drive before making the deal, the gears missed for about 3-4sec. Then became to normal again. Seller said that Seat-Sport was still supporting this model and their prices was pretty cheap. I found the owners manual online and used the contacts from there. I got a message from a Mr. Fernando Perez from Seat-Sport saying that they no longer support this models. The only they could do is sell me a brand new gearbox with my current lsd for 6500euro + old gearbox. ???????????? Fortunaly there is a bunch of aftermarket parts and specialized shops for this engineand gearbox. I contact a shop from denmark (dsg-mechatronic.dk) and they said to make firts a obd read for errors and dsg oil/filter change. Then report the symptons. In the worst scenario they can repair mechatronic for about 400euro. I also want to boost hp to 500hp. The best turbo option seems to be the TTE480. 1/4 of the price of complete turbo packages from APR or IE. https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&sour...ggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNHJearKUUkPhrF9v7JZuAVKiqZRBA I also considering water injection to keep the power level constant on track. Aquamist or even AEM. http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...-di-engines-the-most-advanced-system-to-date/ Our cars has from factory APR HPFP. So maybe a Vis stage 2 kit should be enough for fueling needs and a dlc cam follower for precaution. https://www.vismotorsport.com/product-page/copy-of-hpfp-upgrade-kit-2-0-tfsi-ea133 https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-cam-follower-dlc-coated Sooner or later the engine will also need a rebuild: https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2-0-tfsi-sports-valve-springs-set-ferrea https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2-0-tfsi-auper-alloy-exhaust-valves-ferrea https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-kill-kit-for-intake-flaps https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2-0l-tfsi-high-performance-pistons-conrods-set-mahle https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-main-bearing-girdle I would like to see your thoughts on this. ????
Given the folk who are working on the car are clued up, it would still be a suggestion had this car been a conventional SEM controlled PFI turbo engine. On a TFSI MED9.X and with Kevin on the mapping tools, he would be able to monitor fuel pressure and fuel temperature via VCDS logs. The relief valve on these would be known and mostly upgraded from a component from an RS4. The FDM is more than capable of delivering enough fuel supply to the HPFP.
If you don't mind, about everything. You are 2 years ahead, so all knowledge is welcome. Maybe we can share experiences to shortcut some trial/error stages.
Hi Mate, lot of questions, where to start? Firstly, knowing what I know now, I'd suggest if your car is running at 350bhp without any issues, I'd leave it there, don't touch it. With regular maintenance (a lot of regular maintenance) these things will run c. 330bhp all day, every day. In my experience, the Seat Sport BHZ TFSI doesn't tune well. Everyone I know who has gone down the normal TFSI upgrade path has run into issues with them in some form. Why? I have no idea, maybe it's the lack of atmos/recirc and it's possible you won't face any problems, but I know those that have. If you're getting 150psi across all cylinders that sounds low. I had 2 cyls at 150psi and 2 cyls at 195psi. The two with 150psi had broken rings. TTE? I'm unsure. I haven't managed to get mine working without issues yet but potential is there. I'm yet to be convinced these things are up to the job of running in a race car at full whack for long periods with no atmos/recirc. I'm going to persevere though. On the DSG, they need the oil changed every 2nd outing, at the very least. If you don't you will run into problems. Gear change is sloppy unless you're on full throttle. There's plenty of specialists out there but the mechatronics unit is a bespoke Seat Sport part so not everyone is familiar with it. If I was doing this again, I'd sell standard engine, ECU and gearbox and install a fresh built road car based engine (2.5 TFSI I'd like) running Syvecs or MOTEC with a custom fuelling system. I like the DSG but I'd drop it for a sequential. You might think that sounds bonkers but I'd guess the final spend going that route wouldn't be a million miles off and I think would provide a better platform for achieving c. 500bhp. Most of all, if you are going to go down the tuning route, you need to be working with a mapper/tuner who really knows the TFSI well. That will be as much the key to success as well as dropping a lot of money into it.
You'd think so wouldn't you? I have "gold star" everything on the fuel delivery side, from TTRS LPFP to APR HPFP, 175bar rail valve, new follower, cam, lobe fine. The car just doesn't want to meet the requested rail pressure values. So annoying.
Thank you so much for that info. When i bought the car i knew that engine would need a complete rebuild sooner or later and my first though was the 2.5 TFSI. I also have a RS3 8V and love that engine. But then i start looking at the 2.0 TFSI mild builds and the ouput don't differ much from the 2.5TFSI with similar upgrades. And made me think: 1. Why do i need that higher low torque at track on a FWD? 2. Does it worth adding more weight to the front? 3. At every maintenance, that extra cylinder will have a cost over parts and fluids. I spoke with a guy that was claiming DSG heating issues until the day that he installed a external oil cooler. Maybe that is why you recommend to change the oil so often. I also realized that on the Long Race Spare Parts Catalogue, it has listed a gearbox oil cooler that replaces the left aditional coolant radiator. About the compreension reading, all 4 cyl gave the same reading. So i'm more into slight worn engine or incorrect coolant temp for the test. I hardly believe that it has broken rings in all cylinders. At what coolant temp do you make yours? I really like yours wide c-shape hood vent, close to windshield. What brand is it and where can i buy it?
Hi mate: 1. You don't need the extra torque of the 2.5, it's just a very nice package that can run reasonable power/torque out of the box without too much faffing about. 2. That's the downside, it's 30kg heavier which would take wet weight up to about 1220kg. There is some lightening you can do to counter balance that though. 3. Not much in the scheme of things. DSG cooler helps, but more so with road-car boxes than the Supercopa boxes. Depends what racing you're doing also, if 30min+ races I'd definitely fit one. Maintenance will be the same though. From what I know, compression should be 190-200. 150 would show signs of wear across all 4 I'd guess. I did compression test dry and almost cold. The bonnet vent is an original item from the BTCC cars. Not sure where you'd get one, maybe David Nye of Touring Car Spare Parts.
The bonnet vent is a Seat Sport item from the TDI engined Btcc/ Wtcc cars The engines can be quite easy taken to 400 + hp levels but need alot attention on the cooling side.... or power on the long straights drops off by quite a margin due extreme heat build up.... its matter to find a balance that works well.
Which is exactly why I've got all the extra vents in there, in the BTCC one! Pro Alloy made me up a new radiator which made a huge difference to temps, so much so that the fan on the dyno has to be turned off otherwise the coolant temp falls below 90 degrees. I wish I could agree with you on them being "easy" to take to 400bhp+ but that's not my experience, personal and knowing of others. The Seat Sport BHZ is fickle as hell. If you dropped in a standard TFSI then I'd be far more hopeful of easily achieving 400BHP plus. Fuelling always seem to be a common denominator on the Seat Sport BHZ/Bosch MED 9.1 combo, much more so than on road going TFSI codes.
Mark, what components or part combinations make it different or less durable to say the '200' ps options?
Mate, the only physical differences I'm aware of on the engine is the lack of the Diverter Valve or any sort of atmos system and the intake is bespoke iirc. A lot of the cars were early TFSI's which came from factory with the "weaker" valve springs. Fine for out of the box spec but susceptible to valve bounce/float when boost it upped. The Bosch MED 9.1 ECU and DSG mechatronics units are Seat Sport "locked" items and some (but not all) have trouble accessing and modifying them but I have no idea what the actual spec differences are. Whilst the 2 main engine wiring looms are the same used on the road cars, there are several connections not used, one being one of the coolant temp sensors. Everything back from ECU is bespoke to Supercopa, fuse box, switch panel, DSG controls etc.
Afaik, Pistons with a 9.8 CR against 10.3 / 10.5 on the 200 ps versions and stronger rods are fitted, k04 turbo, inlet manifold / trottle is the same, injectors im not sure For extra power it need an upgraded HPFP and even the LPFP upgraded, other injectors and and upgraded turbo... keep temps under control is key...bigger radiator, bigger intercooler, delete the heat-exchanger on the bloc for a classic oilcooler ...as the oil heats up the water There is indeed an upgraded mechatronic and software for faster shifts by Seat Sport, altough some of the chiptuning companies can supply it aswell ... just as upgraded ecu programs ... altough it need done on the dyno... and on- track logs to fine adjust... These are complex ecu`s and need a throughout understanding as you need to operate within the window... otherwise it does the opposite ... pull ignition, etc Pm sent
Do you know where i can get that gearbox upgrade, mechatronic and software? I spoke with Seat-Sport and they said that no longer support this model. Last week i went to track to test it and the gearbox had some issues. After warmup, everytime i downshift to 2nd it got stuck into neutral despite any shift command. I was only able to clear it by restarting the engine. Fortunally it was a fast track and was able to rode 3rd gear up on the following sessions. A guy said that it may need just to reset dsg values through vcds but it seems too easy/simple to be just that...
Which HPFP are you running to try and acheive this power? I can't see why the seat sport ecu would be holding you back - it should be simpler than the road version.... Unless it has some different form of control strategy on the hpfp?? edit noticed you say APR pump. These have been proven on other tte420 builds so shouldn't be a problem I guess. But might be worth trying a VIS motorsport stage 2 pump... https://www.vismotorsport.com/product-page/copy-of-hpfp-upgrade-kit-2-0-tfsi-ea133
Thanks mate, it's not a fuel delivery issue. The APR HPFP delivers and holds the requested 151bar no problem and low pressure side sits steady at around 5bar. Think we've narrowed it down to either pre-turbine pressure issue or an electrical anomaly, the latter being the most likely culprit.
