throttle bodies- whats the deal?

The turbo thread brought my attention to this.

How exactly do throttle boddies work? I never managed to get a decent answer from people i've spoken to, and haven't quite got my head round the engine internals yet.

Would this be a wiser route to go rather than turbo. reliability being the key here.
I take it throttle bodies will offer more torque than a turbo. And if this is to be done, is it worth it on a very clean 80k 1.8 16v?

Soz about the long list!
Edited by: sife1

 

turbo will offer much more torque, Bills t-bodied 2.0l jetta made about 150lb/ft at best [which is very good]

a turbod 16v can easily make over 250lb/ft from 1.8l

best thing to do is go and read all the articles on www.pumaracing.co.uk Daves a bit harsh sometimes but the info is really good

on 16v a 2.0L engine will make a lot more torque at low revs than a 1.8. throttle bodies do often make good torque but are very expensive for the gains you get.

you could fit a 2.0l 16v engine for under 1000, and with KR cams or ABF cams and a ported head it will make 170bhp+ a good compromise between bottom end torque and high end power.

A VR6 conversion will give you more torque again,

best power/ is from turbo engines really a 1.8t with a remap will easily make 200bhp/220lb/ft and be very reliable.





happy reading


Edited by: prof

 

nice one prof! it'll take me a while!

 

A cyinder with a variable resistor in em, thats a butterfly to me and you (well it's a butterfly in most cases)

As you squeeze the throttle, more air is let through the cylinder body of the throttle body by the butterfly being opened.

Theres an injecter before the butterfly to. As you squeeze the throttle and more air is let through, more fuel is aswell basically.

 

i see so basicly more air and fuel is effectively pushed through, hence power. Reading the other thread it seems the benefits, bar noise, isnt worthwhile compared to other newer methods.

nice one

 

the simplest description is that it basically swaps a single common throttle butterfly/inlet manifold, for one throttle per cylinder. thus maximising airflow into the engine, and maximising the amount of air/fuel that can be sucked in the cylinder in one cycle
Edited by: 0ddball

 

also while we are on the subject this is about the best mod going for normally aspirated engines. you said the benefits arent worthwhile compared to newer methods??? what are those ?

 

IMO, TBs look cool , sound cool, so simple in operation and it keeps things n/a - all ticks for me 8k interest free loan? .... nope not yet I'll stay sensible

 

sorry i'm a bit of a dumbass, so obviously got the wrong impression of them from the other carb/TB thread.

i take it from the '8k free interest loan' comment that they aint cheap to do?!

What gains (torque most specifically) can be had off a 1.8 16v lump with TB's over my standard 16v lump? and how much work is involved fitting and setting up?

cheers

 

shiet already asked about the gains before!
see dumbass
Edited by: sife1

 

You won't need 8k for the job - it's just I can get hold of 8k but it means racking up the bills which I don't want to do.

It's not cheap though, what is? have a look at Bill's site for an indication of some figures http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/

Before you do TBs though do the simpler tuning things like flowing the head and also cams if you so wish.

 

sweet, that's the kind of site i need to look at! Might be wise giving them a call for some information.

Cheers ecd1!

 

No probs, put it this way, a full TB kit with ECU is going to cost nearly if not more than the value of your car.

 

Get a 2.0 bottom end... less than 1k and you wont be displeased.

 

If you hav'nt got your head flowed than you should get that done instead. Believe me it really does transform the engine. A 2.0 bottom end with a good flown KR head should give you the kind of power you are looking for. If your still not happy and if you can afford to, then go TB's.

Stealth are legendary in the 16v department, ask them what would fit your budget.

 

shop around you might get lucky,I bought a 2nd hand eng&box comlete with t/b`s,ecu,mocal oil cooler and a full power steering setup for 725,I only used the t/b`s and sold the rest on,ime using a pug ecu to run em so have got about 300 in them alltogether

me mate bought his t/b`s new from badger,his are the dth head type,he`s allso using a pug ecu to run them to keep costs down

Edited by: mk1.

 

If considering t'bodies for your valver.....

On a stock engine... don't start with t'bodies. Lots of money very little gain. Poor bang for buck on the dub.

Traditional tuning should be done first, like performance cams, gas flowed cylinder head. Sadly the 16v head sux in its design so benefits from a gas flowed job.

Being an atmo engine, the engine is an 'air pump' it needs to want to breath more air in (more power) to benefit from a freer flowing induction like one throttle per cylinder.

Vauxhall XE Redtop engines for example are excellent flowing heads, and gain from t'bodies alone (when mapped) - the dub is not in the same league unfortunately. 20V ADR head however... VAG got something right..

Remember to allow for a mappable ECU system to run the t'bodies... as you are converting from mechanical K-Jet injection (ignoring ABF) to electronic injection. It is the mapping which determins the drivability and progression of the power. T'bodies are basic valves... let air into the cylinders... options are DCOE style with manifold, Direct to Head (no manifold), converted carbs with TPS fitted, Single T'bodies..

More information can be read on www.jenvey.co.uk

regards
bill

 

thanks everyone for the info and opinions!

i'll have a bit of head scratching to do. May need to wait a while then as in two mind whether to open up my engine or not due to its nice condition.
i've been told that it isn't value for money(in terms of gains)when taking a head off for the first time and gas flowing , unless its actually being taken off for a purpose (eg. head gasket ) as the fit will never be the same as new.

Dont know if anyone understands what i mean? or i might be ranting a load of manure
Edited by: sife1

 

as i said way back if you want torque get a 2.0l engine, throttle bodies are not for someone who is after more torque really, more for the screamers/racers out there.

cams will lose a little torque low down but gain more power over 5-6k but

a well ported head can make more power and more torque

for big lazy torque you need a turbo or a vr6

 

mk1, wot power are you putting out (i cant remember wot u ran at the 16v RR day) and wot is mates putting out.