Oettinger, Graf, KR and ABF heads - How much do they flow?

Aviation Co

It was the one of the companies in the google list... I no longer work for the company that I worked for back then and it's a pity as I loved my job but things move on. Nevertheless I don't want to divulge anything. I've seen and sat in a lot of WRC and F1 porn and had the after hours 'behind closed doors tours' too although TBH not as nearly as much as I would have liked!

I had the drawings and ITBs' in my grubby paws as they were having some measuring/production issues. But as to why they had ITBs???? Not a clue I'm afraid and your guess is as good as mine Chris. All I'd ever had prior from the quality guys were airframe related parts for various aerospace compainies and it escapes me as to why I never gave him the Spanish Inquisition. Perhaps a small run of ITBs for a local MS customer or someone close to the company owners? Didn't stop me drooling like I'd been hit in the head with a large hammer. I do seem to recall the general dimensions looking suspiciously like they would bolt straight onto a 16V head. Can't give you anymore info than that as I would always destroy drawings, parts and CAD files once the issues had been resolved.

 

Hmmm, well at the risk of sounding like Sherlock, two years ago is a looong time after VW/Seat ITBs were being used by the factory teams.

If they were the right parts, either they were brought into the UK for servicing, or they were off ~ 2 possible cars in the UK, either Phillip Welch's red Golf kitcar, or Andrew Haddon's Seat Ibiza Evo II.

Or they weren't VAG ITBs.

Is it possible to enlighten?

 

ITBs

I agree totally Chris - Tis a long time and I cannot be any more specific with regard to if they were, or were not, a VW 16V application because in all honesty I do not know. Tis speculation I'm afraid I never checked or measured them up against an ABF/KR head because I didn't have acces to one. However I would have done it in a second but I can't be categoric. But... I remember the 'same' gasket pattern and what looked to be very similar spacing. It was a fresh machined casting by the looks of it (e.g. never assembled) and don't remember if they had produced a limited run or had been supplied the part to evaluate the cost of a limited run.

Edit:
Just had a thought - they were almost identical to the Bildon Motorsport 16V ITBS except they had another 4 injector bosses.

 

Some Oettinger head info:

http://www.pbase.com/jermbos/oettinger_head

 

there is soem sexy bits there chris

the sump!!! hmm!! surely that extension part with wndage tray would put the bottom of the sump on the floor, still would love to have one.

the chances of finding one


Zero!!

 

Pre-production 16V flow quoted, c/w 32mm inlet / 28mm exh valves:

- inlet: 16 cm2 (8v: 12.5 cm2)
- exhaust: 12.3 cm2 (8v:8.5 cm2)

 

GTI Engineering did supply/fit Oettinger heads, before the VW 16-valve came out:

Inlets: 30mm [seen quoted at 31mm also, but could be a journo mistake]
Exhaust: 27mm

(nothing on flow - yet)

 

Again, thanks for this Chris, these diagrams are great. Interesting to see the Oettinger actually had smaller inlet valves than the VW head. I would ultimately expect that to limit the power output, I guess the Oettinger head may have had some other "improved" features such as more of a downdraft style port shape on the inlet side...

I just picked up my VR6 knife-edged crank, block, and balanced pistons / rods set up this morning. Quite excited :-)

 

That'll not fit a 4 pot head

Where did you get it done? I need to get a 16v lump done, but probably won't start it until net year.

 

just looking at a old pic,pre production heads had gear driven cams like the oettinger,believe they changed to chain drive due to noise?

 

Thanks for the tip :-) I used a place called Chesman Motorsport in Coventry. Looks like a work of art, fingers crossed it works well. They came well recommended by a couple of places (Stealth and Guy Croft Race Engines)

Website is http://www.chesmanengineering.co.uk/

 

Good spot Louis! We're reading the same stuff, no?


Sambo had an ex-South Africa Golf 2, which was a bit pre-production. Not sure if he ever had it apart though. Sold since IIRC.

 

looks like it ive seen a write up on the 20v head you posted but no luck so far,thinking it might be in a early vw/audi mag?

 

Did have it apart chris, it had production chain driven cams but when i'v tried to fit said cams into my other valver i had at the time, i'v found they wouldn fit

Cams bearing spacing was different, also cams lobes looked as they had different profiles to standard kr cams

 

Cheers for confirming Did it sell/was it broken?

 

Did a part ex with a lad from burnley who promised it was going to be lovingly restored, his dad has got suitable bussines

Have heard since it was for sale

Dont know what happened

 

Rob T - Did you build/get built your engine or did you buy it already complete? (Seem to remember from PVW article you bought it from abroad...)

 

Bump

So after the lengthy debate Neal, fancy parts are now for sale... what happened?

 

I gathered a few too many parts in my enthusiasm for comparison and realised there was no need for eight conrods in my little straight four, oops :-O I decided to keep the lighter eurospec rods at 475 grms in the end.

Bottom end parts are gathered and as soon as the VR Corrado is on the road, project Jetta can commence in ernest :-)

Regarding head, I see that Bildon Motorsport are selling some 34 mm inlet and some 29.5 mm exhaust valves for a 16v... investigation needed to see if these will fit in the std vw head with some different inserts I think...

 

You wont get 250bhp out of a VW 16v engine.







I'm going to run and hide before Rob t comes after me.