Im having problems timing up a set of 16v Newman Cams. If I have the dots pointing to eachother & parallel to the cam cover gasket face, the TDC marks on the pulley wont line up with the head or Cam Cover notch. From this angle its hard to tell but the dots are set level with the gasket surface. Just at the pulley end its a tooth out...
Supposed to be ground on the original timing figures so you can just bolt it all in. But, isn't that a vernier you're using? Can't you just turn it into position? I'm using internal adjustable pulley with my own, although I'm running mechanical cams and need to use them to set it up.
Yes they are supposed to be... I had an original wheel on there tonight too just to check... Vernier is set to zero but its a tooth out & they only adjust 5 degrees not 10. Its almost like the keyway is machined wrong. I have considered inter cam verniers but according to everyone else with these 272 Newmans you can just bolt them in no probs.
Are you absolutely sure the dots are lined up correctly? I fitted KR cams to a head lately, and had to have a few goes at it to get it right. I found it pretty hard to tell when it was lined up correctly, because of the angle you look from. I'd try moving the chain one tooth, just to make sure (pain in the butt though it is).
Well I just checked to be 100% I found a thin bit if straight edged card & rested this on the flat edge of the gasket face on the end of the head by the chain... If you use the card to extend the plane of the surface it lines up exactly with the tooth of each wheel with the 'o' marks on.
the exact same and identical thing happened to me with Autotech cams, and we proved there keyways where cut wrong both ends. although they still wont admit it (ongoing email discussion) we ended up just making a new timing mark on the autotech vernier. we checked & double checked against original cams, and pulleys. vernier was 100% it was the autotech cams at fault - keyways cut wrong again these where just meant line up to original existing timing marks - but they dont!
spot the difference....and it even appears that your cams have the exact same casting marks between the end lobe and chain wheel. i suspect both Newman & Autotech cams come from the same supplier...
i had the exact same problem last night with my newmans cams. set everthing in its position so all marks line up, turn the engine over a couple of times by hand, went to re-check alignment and the pulley is out by a tooth. took the camcover off and the alignment of the sprokets is spot on as it should be. i have adjusted the belt tension and position to no avail.
with the cams lined up in their correct position, would it matter if i gave the pulley a new marking and used that for the timing. im new to engine building, so you will have to excuse me if this is a stupid question. i really need to get this engine finished so i can get testing. any other ideas?
Ah right Kev, This is the main reason I was fantastically Pedestrian at Brands at the weekend!! Have you spoken to Newman? Im thinking of ringing tomorrow!
Im considering this also... just having someones second opinion later on! I will defo be ringing Newman if they are proved to be at fault here! It ruined my weekend at Brands... was a total waste of time! I should have spotted this before but we fitted them in the dark so I had guessed all would be ok at the belt end when the dots were aligned!! Certainly wont be running their stickers if they don't help out!
i know my case is slightly different as its a different brand but if you can - find out who makes/fabricates newcams cams for them. in my case the actual cam timing is correct in that with 0-0 lined up on cams the lobs on cylinder one measured correctly - sitting like /\ - hence keyways are wrong make a new timing mark on the vernier seeing as its near exactly one out and time it using it. It totally transformed my car. though i need to get it back on RR as soon as possible to see difference before & after if you line up the marks on the pulley with rocker cover - your cam timing ends up like this....
Yes mine appears the same as yours in every way... Lobes seem correct when the 'o' s face eachother, so again it seems the keyway is incorrect.
Can't you simply check the cam timing with a pair of dial gauges? Ignore the stamped marks completely and verify that the intercam timing is spot on (or as spot on as you can get it without intercam verniers) using the information Newman should be able to give you...then set it to the crank using a dial gauge on the top of No1 piston as the crank marker, and a vernier on one of the cam lobes of the now correctly set cams, as the cam marker. Then you'd know your timing was spot on, regardless of what the markings say. Then just re-stamp the cam pulley with a centre punch & paint marker to aid setting up after a belt change or similar...and mark the cams if the provided marks are out.
Yes I think thats pretty much my plan... The point was that they were supposed to be machined properly so you could get a rough set-up without the need for dial gauges.
thats exactly the point, and what ive been trying to get Autotech to admit to but they wont [:^(] instead of wasting my time dicking in & out if the garage & RR's about for months trying to work out what was wrong
I think Newman did, or at least used to, grind their own cams, and also regrind them? As I had an old Newman cam years ago which was a genuine VW cam, reground to 268 or whatever. Maybe now they are buying them in pre-made from outside, which would explain the dodgy pitting on some of the cams people have bought recently, and possibly wrongly cut woodruff slots? I'm sure Phillip Walker will be able to explain what's going on...
When I asked nemans for the timing figures they could only give me some vague ones. The LDA and max lift, where as I wanted lift at TDC etc. All they said was: you have to play about on the rollers!! Exactly what I didn't want to do
