Hi Guys, Some of you may know about my engine dilemas and sourcing somewhere to do a good conversion for me. Well, my financial situation is not what I expected it to be by now, and I have just moved house, which we are spending far too much on atm! I decided then that I really can't afford to get a VR6 conversion done or a bigger bottom end from TSR . Over the comming months I decided I am going to purchase a throwaway car for a couple of hundred pounds (or another cheap GTI ), and take the good one off of the road in view to put a bigger bottom end on myself. At least this way I will have the luxury of time and can buy bits over a long legth of time. So, on to my questions! TSR do a 'balanced' 2.1 bottom end for my car for 1460. I understand that with this I would need a 2.0 dizzy and starter, also a heavy duty clutch (black diamond or such). They say that their 2.1 makes peak power at around 7.2k with a pack C head on it. I already have a pack C head on my motor. What I need to know is, how I could make a 2.1 bottom end that would be as good as possible and would function right. I'm guessing that my big valve head would allow it to breathe right and rev better? How much would it cost roughly? Does anyone know of a guide, how hard is it, and could anyone if possible who has done the conversion offer advice / help to me? Any help / advice would be really appreciated. I know TSR make 170+ hp from their short block 2.1's, I'm not expecting my motor to be as good as theirs! but I want as much bang for my buck as poss! Cheers.
you need to chat to fthaimike, he has a 2.1 8v. if the look on the 16v shootout thread in the events section there is rolling road plots with it against 16vs peak power @ 7.2 k!!! sounds high! maybe 6 k 170bhp, i think u will be talking about 160ish at the best the above plots are of mikes 2.1 8v, alex's 1.9 16v and jims 2.0 16v iTBs
Just going by what the guys @ TSR said, heres one of the mails; From: TSR [mailto:sales@tsr-performance.com] Sent: 02 August 2005 13:17 To: Steven Andrews Subject: Re: 8v Engines Peak power generally comes in between 6 and 7 grand depending on cam choice that is. Fuelling is always an issue. One of our 2.1l conversions is at the very limit of the k-jet system that's bolted to it. We have never tested the 2.1 torque curve so its hard to say and as always its hard to say but these engines produce around the 175 BHP mark and I would say anything from 140lbft to 155lb ft is achievable depending on cam choice. Bare in mind the standard torque figure of an 1.8 8v is114lb ft at 4000rpm. The wilder the cam you go the more you lose down the bottom end, however the cam you get with the engine conversion is designed to give a smooth power band from 2-6500 rpm. VR6's aren't that goodanyway, poor valves and bad choice of pistons. They are also not a proper V6 and therefore have odd sized inlet tracks which by definition will not give good power. Also bare in mind that one of our 2.0L 8v engines won the VW cup two years running and was 3 on year three? You will not be disappointed with this engine? Neal *************** If I would have had the bottom end, it would have had Pack C head, highl lift cam, 2.1 balanced short block, four branch, full performance zorst, cold air induction and it also has a lightened and balanced flywheel, + a new clutch. They seemed to think in several conversation this would easily get over 170hp once they had set up up and RR it?
the graphs are flywheel figures 150lb torque is correct, mikes car pulls like a nutter, esp as its a mk1
sadly i can't plot this on the same graph as the 2.1 8v and others - but it was done at the same rolling road but on a different day, there are three curves, one is 1.8 16v, schrick 260 cams, Blydenstein stage 1 head, then two of them are the same head and cams with a 2042cc bottom end - you may notice a slight improvement the blue line is the one you are interested in (2042cc setup properly) - the purple is before the car was setup (purely a baseline reading) and the red one is the 1.8 curve
So over 170hp is possible then? I've searched and read through the forums, there is a lot of stuff on 2.0 but not 2.1 conversions. Can anyone help me out here?
I'm using a tsr102 cam so it isn't the wildest cam so more power is possible from it but keeping it from pinking is another issue as without the k-star fitted she would pink like hell, now she does it when it gets a little to hot (i'm hoping to map it on the road soon once my laptop comes back as it's being converted to run from a custom plug-inarea within the car). I haven't really messed with bigger cams as i'm happy with the power distribution at the moment & won't change anything untill it's had some track time as the gears may need changing 1st (123 in 4th ). I had a balanced flywheel but was advised about not lighteningit as the weight can help with longer throw?
Mike, et it lightened, the diesel crank has a mass load of extra weight on it compared to a 2 litre crank. belive me it'll make a world of difference and not loose you any power.
The question is: What do you want to use your new engine for? If you're building it for the road, then the extra 60cc is going to give it a little bit more torque, but you could get a 2.0 engine yourself, and build a 2.0 8v under your C pack head, stick a cam in it, and get up to about 150-155 bhp, depending on which cam you choose. That would cost a lot less, as you already have the expensive bit (the head). On the other hand, if you want a competition engine, then you should start with a fresh built, clean unit, and it's worth spending the extra money for another 60cc (provided it works out with class breaks, etc.) I think 170+ would be a stretch for an 8v without an X-Flow head and carbs / throttle bodies. The cam you'd have to run would cost a lot in driveability and fuel consumption. Not good in a regular road car. Also, what car are you starting with, and does your head have solid or hydraulic lifters (which would limit the cam you could use without a solid lifter conversion)
I'll chat with you about it in the new year mate . Edit: steve i had it built there at the time......had a full rebuid about a year ago afterburning a hole ina piston after 123k+ of hard driving. Edited by: fthaimike
I currently have a TSR Pack C Digihead TSR 203 Cam with hydraulic lifters. Head is about 10k old. I've heard that 2.0 8v's aren't all that good, but then they have been with standard heads. With my Head on a 2.0 block would it be a lot better than I have now?
to anwser your question a 2.1 8v wont get 170+ bhp (more like 155-160) but u will get over 150lb/ft torque
my 8v made did make 170bhp, but that was with a x-flow head, & throttle bodies, totally agree with velly, on standard management i dont think a 2.1 8v will make 170bhp, i'd be surprised if it even got to 160bhp,
but with what cam?? mine made peak power at 7.1k and that was with a schrick 304cam!! now that cam on digi or k-jet would be unbearable! does fthaimikes 2.1 8v peak at 5.5-6k?
