256mm or 288/280mm combo for track use?

What would you recommend for track use on a 230~bhp 900~kg mk2 golf 1.8t brake wise? Mainly nurburgring use, and UK non competitive track days.

My options ideall are

16v hubs/carriers/calipers so 256mm, with ATE grooved discs, ATE TYP200 fluid and no final decision on pads (thinking about DS2500). With brake ducts from the front fog light ducts to the wishbone.

OR

288mm vr6 calipers on 280mm G60 discs, so 8mm overhang, heard a few people have done this with no issues and have just ground the excess pad off (as it wears i guess!). This would be random discs, ATE TYP200, and same again probably DS2500 although i'm open to opinions on pads!

Oh, stock rear 16v brakes with unknown discs and standard ATE pads

Thanks

 

Absolutely NOT 256mm with a 230+HP MK2.

Either 280`s with good pads or 288`s. I`ve not heard of running the 288 calipers on 280 disks. Sounds like a bit of a bodge...

 

With something like that:

Corrado G60 4x100 280mm discs with ventilation on both sides.

Like this


Corrado G60 /pre 95 Golf 3 or Golf G60 Lucas Callipers.

Pads - Feredo DS3000, FCP775R or the more progressive Carbon Lorraine RC6, pattern 4011

ATE Superblue DOT 4 fluid as spoked about >>here<<

That combination seems to work for me.

 

Thanks for the advice Nige, glad you're blunt in your opinion and I know you have thousands of miles experience. I've heard a few people running the 288 calipers with 280 discs but will leave that idea alone.

Mainly finding the carriers and calipers at a reasonable price. I have vr6 calipers in my unit and some G60 discs but I'll leave that option now!

Thanks mate, are they febi discs? apparently the new ones don't have the vented hubs anymore. If not do you know what brand? I'll have a look for DS3000 and CL6 but think the carbon lorraines are a bit out of my price range.

I'll get some G60 carriers and calipers, have a look at the discs I have and if not i'll buy some new (hopefully vented hub) discs.

I bought ATE TYP200 as i couldn't get hold of super blue, although it's just a different colour so i've managed to get one thing right!!




Slightly un related, I was planning on running Yoko AD08R, any views on these? Or is something like R888 a lot better? I have 3 AD08 (2 for the rear and 1 for the spare), do i run the same on the front or go for somehing like R888?

Cheers for your help guys

 

The brakes discs you had in mind are by Pagid. They are crap.
The discs I have used are by Brake Engineering. The part number is D1955074.

Unlike most on here, my MK2 Golf covers at least 15-20k miles a year and it includes several of our trackdays.
Pagid brake disks overheated on every trackday, although on road they were OK.
The brake engineering brake disks have lasted a about 15k and have done 4 trackdays with aggressive DS3000 pads, 2 trips to the EU and a 'daily' 600mile /week driver' with std Textar pads.

I get ATE Superblue at Euro Car parts. However the spec of the ATE TYP 200 is just as good.

I am no guru, but with respect to tyres I would list them in order of preference as used on a MK2 Golf with 10kg front springs and 8kg rear + helpers.

• Rainsports - Good wet tyre and road tyre. On a dry track goes off easy and melts, has soft sidewalls
• Federal RSR - Good entry level trackday tyre with no warm up,
• Toyo 888 G- Good all round trackday tyre. Used by the PGTI series. The Saxon motorsport guys have sets from the racers that are going for 50 quid a set!
• Yoko A048 - Excellent trackday tyre for an intermediate trackday enthusiast. Needs a lap to get to working temp. You can also find these used ( over 4m thread) at about 150-200quid a set
• Dunlop Direzza DZ03 G - A bit hardcore tyre that needs a few laps to get to temp. Best used during the warmer months. Once up to temp, grip is phenomenal!

For the ring with all its varying temperatures and conditions my opinion is use the RSRs. UK trackdays Toyo 888s or the A048s

 

I'd go as big and as well spec'd as you can within your budget. Knowing you have good brakes is a massive bonus when driving anywhere.

My 2p's worth on the brake ducts: you probably wont need them. In my experience you have to come up with a system that directs the air flow from a very short distance onto the disc/caliper for it to have any meaningful effect. If not, your kinda just stuffing unnecessary air into your arches which doesn't help much.

Now I've upgraded my brakes to something more suitable for my power and weight, temperature isn't an issue so my ducts will be getting put to other uses.

 

Mechanical advantage on the 288 will make it worth while

Don't worry about the over hang, just grind it down like you saidmy set up overhangs a little, I have a 305 disk and it probably needs a 308. makes no real difference compared to the increase in diameter you are experiencing

 

256mm with Ferodo DS3000, Motul RBF660 fluid on plain discs was the absolsute limit for Mk2 Gti Championship cars with circa 150bhp and 1025kg-1080kg (with driver).

I'd suggest a minimum of 280mm - More importantly than overall size, is pad and fluid choice - But thats my 2 cents :-)

I'm currenrtly having a v ery nice experience with Ferodo DSUNO compound with Motul RBF660 fluid with a plain disc. - Coping well stopping a 1350kg (without driver!) car with no fade, great bite and more importantly very progressive pedal modualtion. They are lasting a LOT longer than DS3000's due to being not being organic but silica based ceramic coumpound. Nice and easy on discs too..

 

I just converted from Girling 54 calipers with 256 x 20 discs to Girling 57 calipers with 288 x 25 discs, the difference in performance was greater than I expected. My discs are redrilled VW Sharan VR6 discs..

 

I am surprised folk still use DS3000 on track/race applications, I hate them, maybe it's just me.

 

From road pads to DS3000, the difference is night and day for a non competitive track car. Not the most progressive pads though.

 

They destroy discs, have a tendency to snatch (lock-ups), generate too much heat due to aggressive compound, take a while to get up to temp, they wear quickly and the compound is about what, almost 20 years old now?

I agree it is a massive step from normal road pads, but any other comparable pad would be a similar step up. On a non-competetive car, in my opinion, there are equally good and better pads available that won't generate as much wear, and therefore regular cost, on the brakes. All in my opinion of course, no science was used in this post.

 

They wear very quickly agreed. Not had so much of a problem with cold temps or biting though. They are an old compound, and some newer compounds from Ferodo are certainly better value in terms of performance and miles usage.

I used to taper the leading edge slightly to help prevent biting, and de-glaze them on a race by race basis! - And bleed the brakes..

 

All posts are good.

As an experiment, I ran the FCP590Rs + ATE Superblue fluid in my old 97 MK3 VR6, for 1 and a half years on road and track covering some 12000 miles.
After the first stab, which we believe to be > 150 deg C, they were night and day over the regular road pads.
Over that mileage, which included a run to Austria and a ring trip, I changed discs twice for the same set of pads. discs wore evenly but got very thin.
The pads also let off really bad brake dust which coated the side of the car permanently.
Yes I did have a calliper begin to seize after 50k miles of using the DS3000 jobs.
At 200 quid + per set for a car with 288mm disks and ATE calipers they were not the most economical and I started using the pads only for trackdays. This helped reduce wear on the OE disks. I also do the same for the MK2.

I am not a racer, but from a road and causal track day user, like the OP.
I gave my subjective feedback based on having these pads as a back up to the RC6s I also use.
I agree there are better pads out there now though, such as the RC6 pads from CL which needs no bed in or warm up and has very stable friction properties from any temperature to 1000 deg C.
I also hear good things about Mintex and even the Tarox and would be interested in feedback on these before trying them.

Mjj4,
Is this the Golf diesel car you came to the dyno day with?

 

I thought the TAROX pads were made by Ferodo?...

 

That is what you told me.

Same compound?

 

I'm not having a go in any way

DS3000's don't belong anywhere near a road/light track. DS2500's are more than up to the job for that.

My experience is track/race only and my pads of choice are currently PFC01's and Hawk DTC60's.

I ran Performance Friction pads on all my road cars, mostly with uprated hoses and fluid but OEM discs and calipers. Great pads IMO.

It's a bit of a marmite subject, what I think is the best and can't be beaten may feel like carp to the next bloke.

 

Never had any confidence with 2500s fitted to a MK2 on track and certainly less so with a lardy MK3 VR6.
As a average trackday driver, my preferred choice of pad are the Carbon Lorraine which, whist abrasive are very progressive and offer excellent feedback.
These are removed after the trackday to save wear and tear.
Happy to try stuff that is proven to work though, once the current set are worn out