Hi Eveyone, I don't think I've posted on this forum before, but I thought I'd see if anyone had any ideas? I've got an '84 GL Cabby with the a 2e2 carb, and have been having running problems really since it started getting colder and wetter My main problem is that the car runs fine up to temperature, but once it's up to temp, it startes to idle really low (~500) and if I don't yam on the throttle, it will just stall. After it does stall though, I restart it and it seems fine again (idling at about 800 and feeling really smooth). I have replaced the waxstat from another donor carb, but I'm not sure that this one is working that well either. If I stick it in a bucket of really hot water, the pin extends out past the mating face of the unit by a few mm, and once it's cold again you can push the pin back in with a screwdriver without too much effort back to the brass face inside, probably 3mm out, so it seems ok to me. Getting the car started is also a bit of a problem, in the mornings, and it starts really lumpy until it gets going a bit (smeels of fuel etc). Maybe this is connected, I dont know. I do notice however that the autochoke assemble on the carb gets RED hot once the car's up to temp, so what do you guys reckon about a possible manifold o-ring seal problem clogging up the coolant lines? It seems a big job, but I'm prepared to give it a go, but is there any other way of confirming that this is indeed the problem before I commit? Any other thoughts appreciated. All standard stuff already done (fuel lines, dizzy, timing etc). I've got a weber and plan to do it soon, but I want to get motoring!! Thanks!!
Hmm maybe I've misread the 2e2 FAQ, the autochoke assembly gets very hot, so obviously flow isn't impeded, that makes sense. So, as this happens on very wet/misty mornings (I live in the Lake District!) perhaps this is just Carb icing?
Ay-up ioboy. Have a look at the FAQs at the top of this section if you haven't already, rubjonny's in particular. First thing to be happy about is that the choke housing being really hot once the engine's up to temperature is correct, and rules out a significant problem with coolant flow. Although it's called coolant it will be close to 100C when the engine is at full running temperature, to your engine this is cool! Waxstat is probably not OK, All the ones I've ever found on secondhand carbs have been knacked. In boiling water that pin should extend a long way out of the housing 10mm + from the flange face. This may be part of the trouble with starting, but possibly not. The low idle when up to temp could be just clogged airways in the top of the carb, particularly the air entry to the idle mixture turret just next to the primary barrel. A good hosing around the top face with carb cleaner may sort this (best to do it with engine running, holding the revs up about 2000 by hand on the accel. cable spindle). The starting lumpiness may well be a knacked pull-down unit, this is the round black plastic housing at the front of the carb top-right as you look from the bumper, with airbox completely removed. The FAQ mentioned above describes a test you can do on this. Broken/cracked vacuum hose from the base of the carb to this unit is also common. Basically just go through that FAQ and check things one by one. You could also be suffering from carb icing, see my FAQ titled "My engne cuts out...", that may be the reason it's cutting out on you. Clearing out the breather from the top of the rocker cover to the airbox is a good idea too. Let us know what you find. Edit: Just seen your second post, carb icing sounding very likely from what you say. Envious of your location bud!
Hey EZ_Pete thanks for the reply. Righto. Waxstat obviously knacked, I just ordered a replacement from GSF. Had a look at the FAQ and your post on carb icing. So tonight I'll try to test the flap, and try to confirm that the bypass heater's working too. So there should be a vacuum pipe going from the air intake (where the flap is) to the thermostat in my air filter box, and another going from the the thermostat into the carb somewhere? I have a feeling that the 2nd one (i.e. the one that should go to the carb) has been blanked off, can you tell me where this is supposed to go? (I will confirm this tonight as well...) Cheers mate, you're a genius. Hopefully I'm back on track
OK Pete i've managed to find out a few things: #01. the flap inside the air intake was fairly well stuck down. lolads of wd40, and now it falls open and closed ok. however, it still takes a fair amount of pushing on the pin inside to get it to move, and sucking on the vac pipe does nothing at all. is this right or should it be moving with me blowing/sucking? #02. the bypass heater unit doesn't even have a wire coming out of it any more! So, i need to find one of these...Can you get them from GSF? I have a donor 2e2 in my garage and that has a much better looking unit, but the wire is still degraded so a new one would be preferable. where does the wire connect to? Wicked. I actually feel like I'm getting somewhere! Thanks so much for your help... Yes, the Lake DIstrict rules, except at the moment everywhere is flooded and mega-windy, so we all have to go the the pub instead Cheers. ps. Ignore the bit in the previous post about not having the right vac pipes connected, they're ok...
Hi ioboy, I'm posting to you on behalf of EZ Pete. His telephone line is out of order and he can't reply to you direct re your post No 4. He won't be able to see your post No 5. EZ Pete has reconsidered his suggestion that your waxstat could be the problem, and concludes that this is very unlikely, and you may like to cancel the order from GSF. He suggests you look at the carb icing FAQ where you should see a diagram showing where your 2nd vacuum pipe should go. EZ apologises to you, and is concerned he may have misled you. I can't help you myself at the moment, because my carb is off the engine and in a dark garage. If I can help you tomorrow, I'll come back to you. In the meantime, EZ Pete is 'off the air' and not able to keep in touch with us.
Hey guys, thanks for your concern. I already realised that I should probably cancel the order- the other waxstat i have in the garage pokes out a good 10mm from the mating face when i boil it in a pan, so i reckon it's good. Don't worry I don't feel in any way mislead- I'm just very greatful for your awesome advice!! Right now my main concern is in getting a new bypass heater unit (see previous post), finding somewhere to plug it in, and working out if the flap now opens and closes when the engine is warming up. I'm really confident reading the Icing thread that this is my problem (it certainly isn't doing any good as it is!!) Time for a brew. Cheers!
I had to get my flap to 'work' last year. Make sure you lubricate with a proper oil after you have freed it with wd40, as wd40 will evaporate off and leave you back where you started. The problem is that the flap spindle will have rusted and therefore expanded in its mountings. I had to break one of the clips in order to give it room to rotate freely. When its free you should be able to move it yourself about 1/3 - 1/2 way with a good long suck. Its easier to tell if its working though by starting the engine, and then listening for sucking up and snapping shut noises in the flap area when you disconnect and reconnect the flap vacuum operating pipe.
Thanks Spanish Mike, for posting on my behalf, and thanks ioboy for not being cross with me about the bum-steer on the waxstat. Hope you managed to cancel the order, if not you can probably sell on here or on E-bay and not lose much. It does sound like the warm-air system is most of your problem, and I would concentrate on getting that going ahead of the bypass heater. I'm pretty sure that the temperature-controlled air supply is more important. Wonder if my phone line at home's been fixed by BT yet?
Thanks again for all your comments, chaps. maxmo, There's no way sucking on the vac pipe (why do I always giggle when I type that?) can move the spindle on my unit. I may have to try to find another one of these somewhere? It takes a fair amount of effort to move the spindle at all with my finger. Anyway, I'll connect it all back up and have a look at what it's doing when I start the engine from cold. Called VAG about the throttle heater, and they quoted 27.90+VAT for PN 026 906 333. Yeah, I forgot how good GSF are. I ordered it yesterday at about 4pm, and cancelled it this morning at 9.01, and at 9.08 it arrived I can post it them back and get a refund though, so no probs there... One question though, the bypass heater has a short electical wire on it, so where does it go? It can't go very far anyway... Cheers guys
There is quite a strong spring pushing that flap downwards IIRC, and it does hurt the finger to push it up from inside; but if no amount of sucking (by you or the carb) will move it, then you may have a ruptured diaphragm in there. You've checked that the vac hose isn't leaking, I guess? Trip to the scrappie may be in order... As for the bypass heater connection, there should be a 1/4-inch spade-type connector inside a plastic housing somewhere around the driver's side of the carb (near that green ball). It has two wires coming out of the back end of it, one thickish black one, and one thinner black with yellow trace (which goes to the TTV unit at the back of the carb). That'll be the feed you want.
for the mean time, open the flap 3/4 of the way and thread a slef-tapping screw through the side to hold the flap open, its fully closed 99.9% of the time anyway. for the lumpy start, does the engine rev up to 1.5-2k for a few seconds or so give or take? If not then the 3/4 point unit isn't working, mine was siezed in the 'running' position.
Hi chaps, /rubjonny - the idle on startup is intermittent- sometimes it goes up to about 1.5k for a few seconds, yeah, but sometimes it seems to level out at just over 1000. Should the 3/4 unit only keep the revs at 1.5-2K for only a few seconds? What should happen after that on a cold start? I'll try putting a screw in the side of the unit to see if it sorts the problem. /EZ - I'll have a look around for another air intake unit. As far as the vac hoses go, all of mine seem to just be pushed on, but on a lot of photo's I've seen they've all be zip-tied on really nicely. Would you recommend doing this? I'll have a look for the bypass heater connection tonight... I'll report back! Thanks for your continued awesomeness.
Oh, and I'll test the 3/4 unit also using the description in rub_jonny's FAQ too. One question about testing the pull down unit? The FAQ says you should be able to close the choke flap by hand until the last 5mm with the engine running. Forgive my ignorance, but the choke flap is the single flap on the top of the carburettor right?
on a cold start it should rev up for a varying length of time, it depends how cold it is out. No more than a few seconds, after that the idle should drop and stay rock steady no matter whats going on outside. Pop the bonnet the next few times you try it, and watch what the 3/4 point unit does, and check it always extends fully when the engine is switched off. And yes, the choke flap is the one on top o the carb
sounds like you're making good progress. To answer a couple of your questions: you should be able to move the air flap in the intake by sucking on the pipe, if sucking does not raise a vacuum then something is leaking or if you just suck and nothing gives then you need more oil (and less rust ) on the flap spindle. The flap actuator is connected to a themostat valve in the airbox and the other pipe from this valve heads round the back of the carb to a port low down on the back of the carb (there are two ports there and it does matter which pipe goes to which port). the heater on the front of the carb should get 12v all the time with the engine running, it is earthed through the carb body and an earth strap back to the valve cover. These two bits of kit should stop carb icing. I reckon you may also have a pull-down issue but hard to tell with the other symptoms knocking about adjusting idle rpms during warm up is not hard, look at the mech of levers and pivots behind the waxstat, with a 5mm (or maybe 4mm) allen key these levers are all adjustable. You can adjust the the point at which the waxstat is no longer relevant to throttle position and you adjust how much the waxstat keeps the rpms up whilst it is in play. good luck, envious of you living in the Lakes. I used to spend a lot of my school hols in Keswick. Lovely part of the world :-)
good grief... hey chaps, here's the news (it is well worth reading the last bit by the way!) #01. Byass heater: OK, so i had a couple of those bypass heaters lying around. Chose the one with the least resistance (i figure this one will draw the most current hence heat up quicker to a higher temp), took it apart and soldered a nice new wire onto it. Found the connector for it (and the bit that originally broke off) dangling round the back of the carb, reconected it and re-attached it. Can't tell if it's getting hot but it should be fine now I reckon. Started the engine...same old story (really lumpy), so decided to check: #02. 3/4 unit: It was indeed extended 14mm or so, eventually retracting to about 8mm. Seems ok. #03. pull-down unit Once the engine had stopped being lumpy and warmed up a bit, there was indeed resistance when closing the choke flap, seems ok too. So, I though I'd check the pipes on the back, and compare them to the reference 2e2 I have lying around in my garage. Strangely, I found that the pipe configuration was completely different!! Here's a pic of the reference carb. This seems correct to me, i think: On mine however: 01. The pipe with the yellow ends and the lump in the middle wasn't there at all! 02. The vac pipe for the air intake thermostat was connected to that square lump the top of the yellow pipe goes into... 03. The pipe that should be going into the right of the two bottom nipples was in fact going into the left hand one, where the vac pipe should have been! So, fingers crossed, I put all the pipes in the right places, started it up, and MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMLETSGOFORAHOONMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Brilliant. Although I have not tested it thoroughly because it was cold and I needed a brew....How was my car working at all?!!! Still to test: flap, and good long test drive!
Mornin! Quick addition: Starting it up this morning (cold+wet+'orrible) it now idles high for a few seconds, at something like 1700, but when it starts to drop down it goes back to being all lumpy, and I need to keep using the throttle to stop it stalling. I guess it must have been partially warm when I finished up last night... I did notice that the 3/4 retracts all the way in now, after initially being fully extended to about 14mm, is this what's causing the problem? Should th 3/4 unit pin always be in contact with the choke mechanism flap it actuates? Because even before when it retracted to about 8mm, it wasnt making contact...perhaps the foo who moved all the van pipes round did something to the choke mechanism? Thoughts appreciated!!
the 3/4 unit pushrod should not fully withdraw until the engine is turned off (and even then only for a few seconds). This could be a faulty run-on solenoid or a lack of a 12v supply to the solenoid. the pushrod acts on the throttle, not the choke btw. The pushrod usually controls the idle throttle position, except in warm up conditions where the throttle is controlled by the waxstat (after the high revs thing) and there should be a small gap between the pushrod and the adjuster screw. Sounds like your waxstat, or the cam positions are wrong (maybe). Also, you may have had a vac leak beforehand so now you may be running a bit richer so you maybe need to adjust the choke settings too. First thing is to get the engine running well when warm (that would include getting the run-on solenoid sorted) and then worry about the warm up systems (ie waxstat and choke) these are easier to deal with one at a time than everything together... good luck
