Alright folks! Some of you will remember me building up a nutty mk3 polo racer/trackday car, I used to run a race built 180-200bhp G40 engine in it which was damn fast, now I gone off G40's and prefer the naturally aspirated method of extracting power Im about to be in the position where I can finally get an engine for the polo now. Currently I am going for a 1600 16v on bike carbs, its lightweight and slots straight no problems. Originally I was thinking about going for a 2.0 16v 9A engine for it on carbs (initially, then TB's later - I already have a DTA ECU). Fitting the 9A and a 16v box isn't a problem as ive got a space frame front end and driveshafts aren't as problem either. The weight of it was the only umm and err about it, in that Im going to suffer understeer issues. I can see myself getting extremely bored of the power a 1600 has to offer, and 2.0 power is what I want. Also to get power from a 1600 costs a hell of alot more than a 2.0! I know Dogwood has got a nutty 1600 16v on TBs but he has spent a hefty whack to get it like it, something I dont really want to do. Most people are going on about the weight of the 9A engine and how bad it would be for the polo, front end wise and understeer wise. Since the MK1 golf and the mk3 polo are roughly the same weight and stripped out properly we are all about 700kg, I was wanting to know what the handling is like for you Mk1 golf boys who run 2l 16v's in their's? Compared to what it is like with the stock engine in it. Ive got fully adjustable suspension in every way possible since ive got adj wishbones, wide track etc, pretty much a mk1 golf setup. So im thinking if the mk1 is pretty good, then the polo would be the same, no? Haven't decided on what wheels to run yet, 13" or 15" - Id prefer 13" but im thinking the golf engines sump would require me really to be on 15", which isn't that bad as tyres would be cheaper since I could use clio cup slicks. Any advice would be cool! Cheers Paul
Hi Paul, My Mk1 Golf has a 2.0l 9A, is caged and stripped of all trim - weight 860kgs. Corner weighting gave a 60 / 40 F -R split but can not comment on handling yet as engine still to be run in.
was just going to say that i can't see you getting the mk1 down to 700kg without a lot of time or money.
Cheers James. Im looking at doing this as now ive bought my house, I haven't got the disposable income from being a singly living on the raf base. Considering I can pretty much build up a 9A on carbs for the same price as a 1600 and have more power, rev a little higher and not have to worry about chocolate piston rods and swapping over heads etc to a AFH 1400 one, the 9A is the one I prefer. I think its down to people going on about the weight of them (I will eventually lighten and balance the 9A - can get it done for free) and that the polo is not suitable for it, that is kinda making me think about it (I dont want to spend out on it and it turn the handling into poop) even though my polo essentially now has nothing polo suspension about it so is pretty damn lightweight and setup nicely. I reckon I can counter any understeer with going stiffer on the rear, im 650lbs rear springs already, or custom making a larger rear ARB in the axle possibly. Counter weight it aswell of course. Think Berg Cup cars, thats pretty much my track width. Im setting it up for quite a neutral/slight rear bias turn in. Ive never really read about any of the mk1 2l 16v boys going on about handling on track so either they understeer a little or not at all.
Jelly's mk1 golf racer? 660kg on a weigh bridge. ok, ok, its a weigh bridge so hardly the most accurate but gives you an idea. My polo is down to 700kg, with full cage into front turrets, LHD, front space frame and single skin fibreglass bonnet and arches (not wings - yet) so plenty of weight evenly taken out front and rear. The 9A shouldn't be a problem i think. Gearbox wise, using a 16v box for now til I can do something close ratio. Gonna get a CAE racing shifter for it.
That'll defo be coming in time, at least LSDs and ATB are obtainable for these boxes!!! My polo 16v LSD box was like gold dust!
If you have any links to mk1 golf's 700kgs or under i would be interested in looking/reading about them as the last very light mk1 i saw on here (jellys) had a silly amount of material cut from it to get a low weight.......pity it was crashed a few weeks after completion.
Paul, Having seen your shell (at AW`s) I`m pretty sure that you can easily set it up to cope with the 9A. My initial (restricted) handling impressions of mine are that it feels much the same as the 8v. Mike, Best way for me to lighten mine would be to wire my jaws up for a month ..........! Notice that you`ve got Llandow there in your sig, good fun track that.
Not driven it yet but been around loads of circuits in it as a (fat) passenger, Ian Vs mk1 with an ABF in the front handles beautifully.
could go n/a 20v as there is a alloy block version which will reduce the weight,dont think its been done alot but will be different
Yes I could go 20v but really I dont want to due to again to the cost of it, the powerplant at the moment has to be good power and reliable. I seem to think that the 1.8 20v NA engine is abit like chocolate when revved a little higher and you gotta replace rods etc on it like the 1600. At 9A is pretty robust, yes ive a weight issue but really Im thinking, its cheaper, reliable tough old unit and proven by the likes of you guys on here. James: My shell has been away from AW for quite a while now, think I pulled the work on it in january due to the sheer cost of them doing it. Been doing all of it myself at mo with a little help. Yep, ive heard about Ian's mk1, very fast and showing up alot of the big boys! Besides Jelly's, Infinity's (?) is 700kg isn't it? RIP Jelly mk1[:^(] 2l 16v it is then!
Yeah i've had no terminal understeer issues with mine. It's nothing special suspension wise, just Avos (race valved) 350 front 400 rear and eibach ARB's, not too low with a couple of degrees neg camber, 16mm spacers on the front and a bit more castor oh and a ATB diff. Handles pretty neutrally really, you can get the back working on the way into the corner if you want or drive it neat and tidly, aslong as you don't just mash the throttle everywhere or turn in too fast, then understeer need not be a issue.
i would have thought that the 2l 16v engine and box wouldn't weigh an awful lot more than a 1600 16v engine and box? as you have the front space frame do you not have the advantage that you could in theory mount the engine with more of a backwards slant to it? in doing so this would shift the datum line of the engine weight further back towards the wheels? this move may throw up the problem of oil flow in the engine, gear shift positioning (if using a rod box)!!
Cheers guys, Good stuff! At the mo the engine mounts are set so the driveshafts are parallel and the engine tilted forward, this is for a 1300 engine, i.e. my G40. AWT mounted it this way. With the golf engine, the 1300 mounts are binned and going to be newly created onto the space frame, yes I'd like to see if I can tilt it backwards (not forwards - I still cant see why exactly they tilted it forwards in the first place) to help weight distribution and probably also airflow as now I can have the carbs/or TB's facing forwards into the airflow. Using a cable change box, so shouldn't be too much of an issue. Actually only one, may be exhaust manifold possibly?
