have read on a few previous threads that some mk2's, when converted to 2.0l, can suffer from pinking. what is it about the conversion that causes this to happen? I have also picked up from another thread that the kr golf and 9a passat use differnt types of fuel injection/metering., namely k-jetronic and ke-jetronic (or motronic?? ). What are the differnces between the two, and is this where the pinking issues lie? If so, could i avoid pinking on a converted 9a by using the "ke" sorry if none of this makes much sense -i'm just trying to get all the facts prior to me going 2.0l thanks
9A has a slightly higher compression ratio than a KR KE or Motronic is an electronically controlled version of the K-Jet mechanical fuel system, runs with more sensors such as a lambda probe and knock sensor. Since I've had my flowed head, I've not heard any pinking, but even with the Stealth warm up regulator mod done, the old head still suffered from pinking on wide throttle openings with high ambient temperature.
so the extra sensors in the ke system detect and eradicate pinking whereas in simple k-jet the engine is given no control/measurement of the 'pinking factors'. (excuse poor terminology ) how does a flowed head improve the situation? i would assume that a head that had been flowed would probably have recieved a quick skim-thus increasing the compression further?
knock sensor ( basically ) is a microphone bolted to the engine block which detects vibration, if pinking takes place the knock sensor 'tells' the ECU to retard the timing. Simple k-jet doesn't have this feature. Excess carbon on the old head , when hot the carbon can cause 'hot spots' which prematurely ignite the mixture causing pinking.
I've got a 9a with gasflowed KR head, and it only pinks if i use 95 ron petrol, with optimax its fine
i see, thanks gary. if, say, you had an engine like yours that was still pinking after head work, would it be worth going to ke/aftermarket management (dta etc)?? what parts would you need to run ke? obviously the ecu and sensors/wiring, anything else? is the metering head/fuel delivery system different due to being electronically controlled?
thats good news as i only ever use optimax anyway. anyone on here gone to the trouble of fitting ke??
Tris (duFF) has fitted the Motronic system to his - search for his posts, should find some useful info.
I've got a 9A running with a ported and polished head and that also has a tendency to pink. Annoying, as I always without fail use super or optimax - even driving miles out of my way to find some. Wonder why?
my 9a runs smooth on normal and i can't feel anything diffrent on optimax so i hardly eva use the stuff. never has any problem with pinking. only running at 7 degreese of advance. Jack
My mates recently built 6A valver pinks under load below 2krpm in higher gears. No problems above 2k. Im hoping the WUR mod will dial out the pinking issue. His head has been skimmed before though. Hopefully my 6A will be ok!
Yeah i fitted the Ke-motronic because of the hassle i had with pinking on hot days and at tracks days. I think a tune up at Stealth on k-ket can get rid of the problems nearly. But the advantange mine has that it runs on any fuel without ever pinking, also on hot days it never pinks. Stealth racing will not play about with ke systems. They are a bit fiddly and i must have had every problem possible getting mine to work but it make good power and is very smooth. The disadvantge is that you could get 8-10bhp more out of a Stealth tuned car versus Ke-motronic on a 170bhp spec engine Your need a 1551 or vag-com and to install it and i keep meaning to write a FQA on it and will start doing it soon for those who fancy a go at it I only fitted it because i had 2 complete systems spare and ready the Bosh book on the motronic ecus
Digi 1 could be an option for you with an SNS chip? Cheap as chips from Germany and even though I`m on low compression with no charger yet it seems to do the business, has knock control.
what exactly is pinking? is this a UK term for "running like ****"? or "knocking" ? I have a 89 gti with stock 16v head, (kr I beleive?). and a 2.0l 9a block. it also has a euro intake cam. I am new to engine tuning so, if I and correct that means it is a k-jetronic CIS. I drive it HARD. the rev limiter is my upshift indicator, and I usually ignore it. I dont hear any "pinking" noises tho. could you describe the pinking?
Pinking = Pre-Ignition. Ignition takes place too far in advance of TDC (top of piston travel), and fights the piston trying to come back up and start its exhaust stroke, so you end up with an engine fighting against itself. This can be caused by incorrectly set ignition timing (running too much advance) too lean a mixture, too high a compression ratio (could happen if there's lots of carbon build up). Can result in burnt valves / melted pistons if not corrected. 16v golfs tend to run a bit too lean at the top end on std K-Jet injection. The WUR (warm up regulator) modification is used to richen the mixture a bit and avoid this. My 9A with std head, KR cams and modded WUR doesn't pink at all that I've noticed... it's been set up at stealth by the previous owner. Jonny (nice pic, by the way). Show us some shots inside your engine bay and we'll be able to tell you if you're on standard K-Jet or not. It may well have been modified on a competition car.
ive been trying to find out more about this WUR mod. I do all my own work, so I am looking for a detailed explanation/guide to follow. I dont think any modification has been done to the WUR, since this is the first I had ever heard of it. - my local VW sceners are all about turbos and VR's and whatnot. not a lot of die hard 16valvers around. here are a couple pics of my engine bay. and this last one because I love ripping up dirt.
Jonny Phenomenon you run a USA spec 16v. This means you run KE-JET. Jonny, get a chip from Techtonic Tuning or something. check out the forums on http://www.vwvortex.com for info. You basically have the same system as the Passat 9a and Corrado 9a that we have here. The warm up regulator is built into your metering head. Any jonny, get rid of that damn aircon! Too much weight and engine load! You got some free performance right there by dumping all that crap. Gurds
My modified 9A runs KJet with 12` of advance and no real problem - it has been well set up though. I have had the occasional pinking during the Summer even on Optimax but only on wide throttle openings in a high gear at fairly low speed .... so I avoid doing that ! Had to buy ESSO Super once and that was absolutely terrible for pinking !!! When competing (hillclimbs / sprints) I add an octane booster for safety.
I want to respond properly, but Ivbe been drinking a bit tonight and can barely type. I dont think I am running KE-jet. I think I am running k-jet. but to be honest, I have no idea how to tell the difference. can you explain how tyo tell the difference? I went through the trouble to remove the air conditioned. its all of 15 lbs or so. I had problems with starting and in my haste to find a solution to it I reinstalled the pump. I have all of the plumbing to install AC in this, but I dont have a lot of need for AC in my region (way up north) right now my ac compressor is acting as a pully. (thats all)
KE looks similar to Kjet but has a couple of extra sensors - if Gurds reckons you've got it I'd tend to believe him. The engine in my 16 valver came from a passat which had KE jet. There are a couple of unused electrical plugs hanging off of it because it's now on a Kjet car. The easy one to spot is at the right hand end end of the head at the front... probably plugs onto a sensor near there.
