custom ecu without itbs?

i keep reading about aftermarket ecu's of various types but they all seem to start from the premis that you'd be running itbs.

am i am right in thinking that itbs have individual fuel supply control for each tb as well as individual air flow sensors? and if so then the question follows:
can you get aftermarket ecus that work with a single fuel rail and a single tb - as with (for example) digipants?
i.e. an ecu you could plug into a laptop and have a much about with yourself?

sorry if i don't have all the correct lingo or if i'm missing something blaringly obvious, but any info apreciated.

 

as far as i can understand , the itb's use a fuel rail like normal, the difference is the injector is attached to each tb. so u have 4 injectors and 4 inlets instead of 1 inlet and 4 injectors. they don't have afm, instead i believe they use a throttle position sensor and lambda probe to work out the mixture. sure prof or TSC or Golden or some such sage like person shall appear and bestow thier great knowledge shortly, please hold.

 

IMO, it's not really worth it unless you ditch the digi air flow meter. You could maybe look for a system with a hot wire, mass gas airflow sensor. I'm not sue if that would totally negate the need for the throttle position sensor, used on the tb systems though.
mark

 

yes you can get aftermarket programmable ecu's that don't need ITB's



and yes they are a great idea - they give many of the benefits of mapped itb's without the expense.

 

re-reading earlier threads, it seems that itbs have a tps as well an afs (vacuum sensor on the head side of the itbs)

what's so bad with the digi air flow sensor?

dex - that's what i imagined

i get the impression that itbs aren't all they were cracked up to be for the sort of application us mere mortals have, but i still think that a custom map on a full efi system would be better than fettled k-jet.

know of any example ecus?

 

The biggest cost in a throttle body setup is not the TB's but the ECU, amplifiers and wiring required - roughly 2/3 cost on this.

I know cos I've done it.

Cheers

Rob

 

1. It restricts air flow according to most.
2. It's fully open by 4000rpm, so your onto purely mapped by then anyway.
3. It's mechanical, which means it is prone to more wear than a purely electronic system.
4. it measures air flow, not mass which is what you require for accuracy.

Edited by: mark25

 

You can run a mappable ECU on non t'body engine for sure.. Electronic injected car with fuel rail, tps, crank sensing etc.. like ABF for example.
I am just finishing a 1998 16v Passat with 1.9 16v motor, ABF injection system complete, and a DTA ECU.
Single T'bodies are also available with or without injector pockets..
What are you planning on doing?
regards
bill

 

for the mapping, i would intend to do it all myself. that would be the point of an ecu i can plug into a laptop.
Edited by: GTI

 

bill, i would be planning on learning about the ecu's. i'm a software engineer by trade and am pretty intrested to get my hands dirty.

edit: just realised that your website has loads of useful info. hats off to badger5.

Edited by: GTI

 

yes i keep editing posts, because i repeatedly write stupid things!!

 

To be honest mate you need more than skills than being a software engineer to map a car.

You need a detailed understanding of how the engine and related compenents, like the fuel and ignition system work.

What also helps is if you have bnee taught by someone, or been in an enviroment where you can learn about it... You're not going to know half of the little tips and tricks you need to get the all round best of of the car..
I would at least try and get a good base map you could work from.

 

i don't want to post my entire life story, but i'm not scared and i'm () fairly bright ().

i'm sure i'd have to get a base map, but i'm also sure that i'll learn f**k all if i sit on my hands and don't challenge myself.

how else would i ever learn?

 

Agreed, a good book IMO for some of the groundwork would be Haynes "Automobile Electrical and electronic systems".

Maybe, as you don't (i guess) have a RR, it may be worth getting a system with a lambda sensor, could aid the DIY online tunnig.
M.

 

thanks for the advice. i think i've got a reasonably good idea of the groundwork already - just a case of filling in the gaps.

i don't have one myself, but there is a very friendly RR just walking distance from my house and there is always the 'private test track' if i get it plugged into a laptop

i'm just surveying the ground atm though

Edited by: GTI

 

me mate got good results on his cavalier by using a oe ecu of another car,check this site out for details
http://www.chipwizards.co.uk/
Edited by: mk1.

 

yeah a lot of pugs have an ecu that is especially popular for use in place of an aftermarket one

 

which pug ecu do they use ?

 

i helped my mate map his DTA'ed westfield, he got a base map to start with and we worked from there. - the dta program is easy to use but you do have to know a bit about what you are doing!

it would be quite difficult to set up a car without access to a set of rolers though!

He has since got the car setup by a profesional and the guy said we had done a pretty good job!

Cheers
Rob

 

just been looking at the dta program. obviously do need to have it on the rollers in order to maintain particular revs under load. still, not a big problem.

mk1, you've mentioned chipwizards and the pug ecu to me before. i'd need to buy an eprom burner to remap it myself though - as well as having to source the software and connecting leads to be able emulate the chip.
by that time i'd have more than likely already spent the cost of a dta setup.

getting back (vaguely) to my original question, does a system like digi on an abf have the same set of sensors and controls that you get on itbs? so the ecu just plugs controls those in the same way as for itbs, or do itbs have per cylinder controls and sensors of some kind?