Four stud hubs, plus axle wishbones => camber + castor!

< split from here >

Road-going TDIs (4-stud) don`t have the angled ball-joint. They have the same setup as 16v/late-spec Mk2s.

Only the GTI/VR6 have the angled b/j to accomodate the wider track wishbones used with the 5-stud hubs.

You can still fit wider track wishbones to the 4-stud hubs, but you end up with massive negative camber (as my daily does...)

 

Would you be able to just run over what your running to do this ? i've got four stud late 16v hubs and im after some extra negitive camber ?


Jo

 

I had to swap the subframe, so I got one that a mate had going spare (with wishbones still attached with better condition bushes than what I had at the time), ostensibly from a GTI, though turned out it was from a VR, but I`m pretty sure they are indentical.

Subframes are all the same so it bolted up no problem. The only issue was when it came to the balljoints...

The TDI ones (19mm IIRC, and vertical like late/16v Mk2) had it`s outer two mounting holes 3mm further apart than those in the wishbone.

No problem, I thought, and got some GTI/VR balljoints instead, only they were the angled type, so wouldn`t fit the 4-stud hub.

Some minor modifcation of the wishbone was needed to then fit the TDI balljoints (one of the wishbone holes slotted/elongated, and larger washer used). Looks a bit of a bodge, but it`s perfectly good, and has been for over a year. Two MOT testers have had no issue.

I also set the hubs all the way inwards at the top (adjustment on the hub/strut mounting point) to clear the arches since it was also lowered by an extreme amount.

That sets the camber at about-3.5deg, so I`m not sure what it would be with the wishbones alone, and hub in the upright position, though TBH you could probably achieve up to around -1.5deg just by altering the hub position anyway.

I only appear to have `stumbled` across a method of going beyond that by accident.

 

The offset position of the ball joint on the 5 stud hub gives more castor on the road cars without having to change body shell at strut tops on a std car.

Need to get the wheels off mine for a few pics.

 

You need daved to produce a drawing.
Yes the wishbones pick up on the balljoint further forward on the 5 stud mk3 GTIs. This gives more castor whilst keeping the wheel in the centre of the wheel arch.

 

Now I am confused...you sure?

I`ve fitted VR wishbones with the TDI 4-stud hubs, and gained a shed-load more neg. camber than just hub adjustment alone normally gives...

My MOT guy (who pretty much seems to know Mk3s back to front) also commented on how much camber there was, then when it was on the ramp twigged why that was, saying the standard TDI 4-stud wishbones are usually the same as Mk2 items.

 

If you used mk3 VR wishbones and 4 stud hubs (modifying the ball joint location holes to suit), then I am sure your wheels will not be sitting central to the wing's wheel arch when viewed from the side?

 

There`s a marginal increase in castor, yes.

 

So much turn in win!

 

Yep!

A female friend (who has no real understanding of handling) once commented that, at pace, it feels like it`s swivelling about a point somewhere in the middle of the rear seats.

 

Hmmm < thinking > what's the minimum camber this set up will give if you back off the bolts on the hub/strut attachment and go for an average ride height? At a guess?

Is there any reason why everyone with a 4 stud car should not do this immediately? Which ARB are you running?

 

Purely supposition, but I figure if the usual hub adjustment gives around -1.5deg, then the wishbones are giving at least the same again.

If I`m out tinkering with the car tomorrow, I`ll give it a look.

The ARB is GTI/VR.

Just to put it all together;

My original subframe had a bust captive nut (N/S front wishbone mount)

A mate had recently swapped a VR into what was an Mk3 8v GTI, and had a subframe/wishbones/ARB complete going spare. I had originally assumed this was all from the GTI, since he said he was just going to drop the VR out of the donor still attached to the subframe/suspension/wheels, etc

Turns out he just swapped the engine, and this subframe, etc came from the VR donor.

It came less balljoints, so I went out and got some GTI items, and didn`t even look in the box. Only when I came to fit them did I `remember` they were the angled type.

Tried to fit the original TDI balljoints (since replaced with new), and discovered the mounting hole mismatch. `Engineering solution` employed - all good.

 

Coming back to me now!

More on the topic before here.

 

Ah, yes! Remember that now.

Despite what I said in that thread, I won`t be swapping back to TDI wishbones!

 

So my reading of this, is that on a mk3 gti you can fit mk2 hub carriers, with 4 or 5 stud hubs pressed in, to get a nice bit of camber?
I am asking this to work out a track/race3 car from standard parts but the simplest way of making things reliable

 

I had to pause and look at the wide tracking FAQ to think about this. It seems from what was written then, the is 1 to 3mm gained with the VR set up, but these measurements are derived from driveshaft length differences here!

Stirs up the grey matter - Stu saw a camber gain, I assume like-for-like from the same ride height?