Geo Setting for mk1 trackcar??

Toe measurements in mm are useless as they rely on checking the tracking at a set distance from the centre of the wheel.

The old style "Dunlop two prongs sitting on the wheel" gauges are just as accurate as new fangled lazer shit as long as the person using them knows what they're doing.

 

don't worry - when i first heard that you cure understeer on a 200sx by fitting a stiffer front ARB i was a little surprised - and then i remembered driving my golf with eibach rear arb and std front - understeer on entry, oversteer on exit - caused by having too little front roll stiffness/too much rear.

so as with everything there is not one particular *change* that will make a set thing happen - you have to look at the current settings, and their effects to work out what effect you want to change and what setting will give you the result. (/takes breath)

 

Same on integra type r's. I believe its because they run double wishbones all round so cant really compare it to a vw.

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=18&t=168761

 

Well spotted Gary,

Keith I'm quite happy to help you with suggestions and advice for your race car but it's worth mentioning that questioning 20 years of race and road car building is not endearing you to me.

Also asking for back up from that bunch or armchair racers, chequebook engineers and dreamers on PistonTards is even worse.

I really would like to help you do well, and wish you all the luck for this season.

 

i think Keith was right to search around different places and see if he got the same answer - if it was my stack of money invested into the race series, and my weekends spent racing the car i would want to be very sure the person giving me advice wasn't lying/ forgetful/ malicious/ internet weirdo....

he not only *eat humble pie* but also posted the link so everyone else could have a look and see.

takes cojones to admit being wrong.

 

Yeh, respect for eating the pie that is humble.

 

I think you need to come down off your high horse a bit! I have never questioned your 20 years of knowledge. So far, nearly everything you have suggested that is within the Stock Hatch regulations, we've already done! With regard to the toe issue, I don't think there's anything wrong about seeking a second opinion. I admitted I was wrong, so you're still the worlds most knowledgable person!


Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for your advice, but if you're going tobe like thiswhenever we question, or otherwise decide against something you have suggested for whatever reason, I'd prefer you to take a back seat.


Sorry!

 

Posted in error
Edited by: Keith's Dad!

 

Did something wrong there...


Anyway, just to agree with Keith albeit I'm related, we have paid for the services (or Keith has) of a well esablished and highly respected company in the motor racing field. They have their own team racing in the 'Cleo Cup' series and their clients range from the likes of us to Le Mans GT cars with most things in between includingtouring car teams also use their services. We have known them for some time now and have every confidence in their knowledge and workmanship. They are most definately not, "a bunch of armchair racers, or chequebook engineers"


I have searched this topic to find out what Golden has been offended by. Nothing anyone has said (unless I missed it) is suggesting Golden is incorrect. Just because someone asks, "why or how" does not translate into I don't believe you! But remember we all have a right to ask "why" without getting a condesending and patronising rebuff from Golden. I got a similar answer a couple of weeks ago and just stopped communicating rather than getting into a row.

 

Golden was referring to the Piston Heads forum, where I sought a second opinion on toe in/out etc.

 

Your'e right Keith, I guess he was, but it's the "don't question my opinion I am right" attitude which prompted my reply. I thought this was a discussion forum. Shame because it was interesting to get all the different opinions andexplanations regarding toe in/out. Lets hopewe get some more balanced suggestions. I am taking the car over to Toby on Wednesday for setup so I will report back on his opinion. In fact I will get him to login to the forum and explain the reasons and effects of toe settings. Could beinteresting and usefull to see his explanations.

 

Keith, interested to know what brake pad material you are useing, maybe you could e-mail me if its not for general consumption.

Cheers.

 

Guys, Ill apologise for my brash reply. Keiths Dad, my I am right attitude comes from the fact that I am right. Im not a Sunday morning tinkerer but a highly qualified vehicle engineer. On reflection though you werent to know this which is why Id like you to accept my apology.

 

Don't worry about it!

 

Although not expected or asked for apology accepted, thanks. Lets start again.

 

After the prolonged pause to the subject, I had a conversation with Aurok today regarding the Tow in/out topic.


In reality there is no definitive answer. So many other things combine with geometry likeweight distribution, tyre pressures, spring and damper rates as well as track conditions. The above combination, in particular the spring rates and damper settings on Keith's MK1 favour a slight toe in to induce a good turn in response. The fact that the regulations dictate we must use standard rubber bushes is the main reason for this. When testing with a dead parallel tracking setup and a 1.5deg neg camber, 2 bar in all (hot) tyres,the handling was exeptionally good and provided a good feedback and confidence in very fast corners. The only problem was a delay in turn in as the steering wheel was turned. A 0.25 degree toe in cancelled out this delay, making the turn in more responsive. This was effectively 'taking up the slack' in the bushes and anything else which may have play in it. The rear end camber is standard by the way.


I don't feel qualified analise why the settings produce these results, but they do. We have left the fine tuning to Aurok who know there stuff and have produced a very stable and responsive car.


I hope this may shed a bit more light on this topic.

 

Spoken to Andy at AW Motorsport. He is in agreement with our's and Auroks views on tow in/out. Having raced MK1s for years and won championships in them, we have gone for a parallel track on ours for Brands. We are also going to give the back more negative camber for the next meeting by shimming. Rear end tow will be left alone. The car handles too well to start messing in that area. The front camber is only 1 degree neg but based on tyre temps on dry testing at Brands we think this is OK. We may need to raise the rear end a bit at Brands if understeer becomes an issue. I drove the car back from Aurok, and it feels very neutral but very secure and predictable when pushing hard. Even if wet at Brands we will probably play with tyre pressures only to change handling characteristics. Our only gripe is having to use standard bushes which are the weakest link with our setup. However as we don't intend to cheat we must retain these. Otherwise we are happy and ready to go for it next Sunday. Let's hope we get some support from the 'ClubGTI' members!!