Honda K20 conversion

Discussion in '16-valve' started by scruffydubber, May 20, 2012.

  1. scruffydubber Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hi,

    I hope this is the best section.
    Like lots of others I really enjoy my ABF mk2, I've had more powerful mk2's in the past (20vt and G60).
    But there is something very rewarding and fun driving a 16v Mk2.

    I've followed lots of threads on here where people have tuned the 16v engines. Lots of builds are costly and haven't created that much power.

    What are peoples opinions on a K20 conversion into a mk2. The engines are reliable and make lots of power high up the rev range, fitted into a lighter mk2, should make a lot of fun. And have a nice quiet and smooth idling engine when you don't fancy a blast.

    I've done a bit of research and the main hurdles will be engine mounts and drive shafts, both of which can be overcome.

    You can add K pro to the ECU, which will defeat the imobilser and allow it to be remapped.

    A custom or modified exhaust manifold might be required.

    And I'm not sure of the best way to have a working speedo, maybe convert to the Honda clocks.

    I assume the honda has a hydraulic clutch, hopefully the vw master cylinder can be connected to the Honda slave cylinder.

    I'm sure some purists will not like the idea, but I love mk2's and the K20 must be one of the best NA engines out the box.

    One downside the engines are expensive to buy, but you could easily spend the same on a vw 16v engine and not achieve the same power and reliability.

    Here are a few build threads I've found

    K20 Caddy

    K20 Vento

    K20 Corrado on here
     
  2. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Personally, I like the idea very much.

    Gurds
     
  3. decoc182 Forum Member

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    Would it not be easier having a bell housing adapter fabbed for a k20 to match the 02a/020 bellhousing? Save messing around with the driveshafts etc? Use similar mountings to the mk1 chassis, and a tie rod brace to the subframe at the rear?
     
  4. 2dubnick Forum Junkie

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    Stick with the honda box as its 6speed short ratio and pick up an import one with a lsd. Honda engines rock, I love em but generally everything around them is total rubbish and anything over 120k is considered on deaths door, unlike VW where 120k is just about run in.

    Iv banged on about doing a h22a conversion on a mk2 shell I have here for years but all Iv done is strip it of everything including all underseal and unwanted bits, since then Iv just looked at it and imagined doing it.
     
  5. scruffydubber Paid Member Paid Member

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    That's interesting about the mileage, I suppose 120k for a 200+bhp 2.0 NA isn't bad.

    It be a bonus if I could get a box with a LSD, and I like the idea of the mount to the subframe. It looks like the vento has done something similar.

    The more I think about it the more it makes sense. Could even use a S2000 lump with a DC5 box.
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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  7. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Sacriligeous for me..

    Plenty of VW power unit choices :thumbup:
     
    Aliga likes this.
  8. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    S2000 F20C engine is a north south application. Better to stick with a K20A, Z* transverse application.
    K20A engine is the JDM handbuilt version, where as our market (EDM) got the "lesser" K20A2 motor in the EP3. The gearbox on the JDM engine does have an LSD.

    I have had these on the dyno at GS and they seem to generate less torque than a well sorted ABF motor e.g. 150ish lbft for a K20A2 vs 160lbft for a OE ABF engine with a SEM and mature calibration.
    The STD K20A2 motor on the the other hand will still rev over 130lbft at 8000rpm, a feat only a heavily modified ABF can achieve.
    The engine may have less torque than a VW 2.0 16v engine in optimised form, but do not let that fool you, the powertrain makes up for engine effort by a short FDR and overall gearing. Thinking about it the K20 engine has plenty revs to not run out of top speed, and you would exceed tje axle torque of most ABFs motors coupled to a short 4.25FDR including modified ones. This would make a very fast car.
    Add a hondata K-Pro interface to the ECU and you can have an engine that can build on the torque size and spread for even more potential.

    Why would I not attempt this myself:
    • Engine and support hardware is still fairly costly to buy.
    • No challenge to fit any engine into any car, else I would have an EVO 3 4G63 motor in my Golf 2.
    • Really needs a light EG series Civic as a good home in the same way a 1.8T is good donor to a MK1/2 Golf.
    But that is just me.

    If it is done properly then you will have a very fast car indeed.
     
  9. shaz8389

    shaz8389 Forum Junkie

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    I suggest a well developed turbo charged ABF. See above for proper information.
     
  10. tshirt2k

    tshirt2k Forum Junkie

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    Done the 'proper' way? Without stacked gaskets by any chance??:thumbup::lol::lol:
     
  11. scruffydubber Paid Member Paid Member

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    I want NA though guys, as said I've had FI mk2's before and fancy a High powered NA engine. Plus I have G60 16v for my Syncro.

    Interesting info there Toyotec, I did a bit more research into the f20c, and realised it doesn't bolt straight to a K20 box.

    I think the main thing that attracts me to the conversion is having a nice factory idle, but high revs and power when you fancy it. I can't think of a NA VW engine that can match that.
     
  12. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Why bother to put a honda engine in such a heavy chassis? I can understand that is a challenge and is something different from what everyone is doing but you will need work to make it real fast such as a EG/CRX with a k20. Also, did you consider the costs? these conversions are costly. You can spend that amount of money on your current engine and make it fast. no vtec though ;)
     
  13. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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  14. scruffydubber Paid Member Paid Member

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    Heavy, the mk2 is lighter than a DC5, and A DC5 is much quicker than a ABF Mk2.
    I have calculated the costs, this is one of the down point in my first post.

    That's a great thread BEN, but my experience of throttle bodies are quite noisy. Which is great for a blast, but not going to the local supermarket.
    Or are they fairly quiet at part throttle?

    What would that be like on fuel compared to a abf with a plenum?
     
  15. Ben S

    Ben S Forum Junkie

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    It was louder than plenum, but you could use an airbox with a filter similar to standard.
    Interestingly I compared my Mk2 ABF MS with a Mk2 ABF digi I built both on an 02a cda gearbox. The MS car pulls more than a car length away before needing to change to the next gear, so I wonder how the DC5 would compare. Not all ABF are made equal lol
     
  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    A STD DC5 ITR is a much more capable car compared to a Golf MK2, with an just ABF 'chucked in'. If the Golf Mk2 has been built with focused targets in mind i.e. like a semi track car with STD engine tuned, Gearbox FDR etc, then that is a different story.
    The throttles in that exercise are noisy are full load from about 6000-7500 as they were open but managed to pass the drive by sound meters at Bedford.
    Partload without an airbox was not intrusive but raspy. A well designed airbox would have reduced intake noise.
    The vehicle's driveability was not compromised, compared to with a plenum in the exercise mainly due to the design of the throttles and the calibration that controlled the engine. So no issues with driving the car locally. This car was Ben's daily driver after all!
    FE up to 40mpg on cruise...Ben can advise on that though.
    However that ITB package by itself will not be enough to take on a vehicle such as an EG Civic with a K20A* fitted to it.
    I do agree, remove the powertrain from the ITR and fit to a lighter MK2 and you will have a very quick car that would achieve great idle quality and engine robustness at 8K rpm, without the need for any engine hardware modifications.
    But no challenge in that for me...
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  17. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    since we are talking about a conversion i was referring to an mk2 and an EG/CRX in respect of weight. That's why i said mk2 is heavier. As for the noise of itbs i agree with what toyotec said. Fuel consumption is very good on mine but bear in mind that is not a 2.0l.
     
  18. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Or...Another way to describe

    1 Take an ABF engine out of a MK3 Golf and fit to a MK2 Golf and you would have a 'warm' performance car pending suspension/brakes updates. Faster NASP car if you spend money intelligently.
    2 Take a K20A2 engine out of a EP3 Civic and fit to an EG/EJ series Civic and you have a very, very fast car pending suspension/brakes etc. Most likely faster than car 1 without focused mods. Even faster than a modified turbo Golf 2 if you spend money intelligently on the K20 i.e. K24 + Mugen cams, Edlelbrock intake pleum and I can go on...
    3 Or use Golf 2 surrogate chassis with K20A2 powertrain creating some sort of frowned on Golfvic and have a much faster car than car 1, even with tuning, but not as capable as 2 due to beam rear suspension vs indepenant reer set up.

    But then you fit a Duratec 2.3 in a Golf Mk2 and go even faster...
     
  19. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    :thumbup:
    There are K20A turbo's too :o

    Do not worry, He has finally experienced what stacked gaskets go like on low boost...:lol:
     
  20. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Ha! liked the idea of a duratec :thumbup:

    A friend has a K20 turbo (stock engine) in an s2000 and that is a fast thing ;) Took hours of tuning though..

    Are there any k24 engined cars in the uk?
     

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