Ignition switch and start button inlie of key and barrel

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by vr6smith, Dec 15, 2014.

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  1. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Been thinking about this for a while and searched but can't find a relevant post.

    I'm thinking about removing the key barrel from the steering column and installing a flick switch for the ignition and button to start the engine.... I'm sure I can figure it out but to save time has anyone done this and or know how too.
    Security is not an issue as it's never trusted out on its own lol
     
    vr6smith, Dec 15, 2014
    #1
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    ign switch is as follows:

    15 - black - ignition live for coil etc
    X - yellow/black - x-over live for blowers, lights, wipers etc
    30 - red - perm live input
    50 - red/black - starter cranking live
    P - grey - parking lights
    SU - red/brown - key-in-ignition live for stereo and lights on warning relay

    If this is Because Racecar you can ignore the key-in-ign live, put the pin X and 15 on your ignition flick switch and red/black on the start button. run the red to the input on both of these. if you do have a stereo put the SU pin to the ignition flick switch too. the parking light wire is only live with ignition off so if you want that to work too then you would want a double pole switch so it puts power to the parking light when off and ignition wires when on if that makes sense.

    Just remember to have the blowers, lights and wipers switched off before cranking to reduce load on your live wire so starter gets maximus voltage. Think that covers it :thumbup:

    edit: to reduce the load on the 2 switches and/or reduce price of said switches you could wire them into 2 relays rather than direct so they dont see any real load thru em. for this one you would wire like so:

    30 - perm live
    85 - earth
    86 - output from the switch above
    87 - power to the circuit above

    so for the ignition one 86 would be from your shiny new ignition switch, and 87 to the black and yellow/black wires. starter 86 from push button and 87 to the ign switch red/black. you could put the starter relay in the engine bay if you like

    the parking lights could be fed from the 2 pole switch direct tho no real load on that circuit
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    rubjonny, Dec 16, 2014
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  3. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Thanks John. Knew you would know :thumbup:
     
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    welcome :thumbup:
     
    rubjonny, Dec 16, 2014
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  5. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Was looking at 25amp ignition switch so should handle the load without need for a relay?

    And the starter button will be a proper start button so will be ok to start the car
     
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the ign wire is only 1.5mm2 21amp max rating so a 25amp switch should be ok. only thing to watch is while most of the X over stuff is fed from the X-over relay, the headlights are fed direct from the headlight switch so this will increase the load on your switch unless you relay the headlights separately :)

    if the starter switch is designed to be used without a relay you'll be reet, the instructions should tell you one way or another
     
    rubjonny, Dec 16, 2014
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  7. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Thanks again john, headlights are never really used. But they shouldn't trip the switch should they? 25 amp
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I'm thinking if you have load from the ignition plus the lights together it may get a bit close to the max, especially on main beam?
     
    rubjonny, Dec 16, 2014
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  9. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Maybe, I was thinking about putting the quads back in, meaning the lights won't get used as I used them as an air intake. Might just add a sidelight but I've never been on a trackday and needed headlights
     
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  10. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    I take it that its just the load through the stitches and not the cables? Seeing the cables would be the same and the switch is new, could I not just make two ignition switches? One for the ignition coil and one for the lights and blowers? So wire the live to both switches and then on to the relevant circuit?
     
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  11. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    For inductive loads like a starter solenoid, or resistive loads that change resistance drastically with temperature, you should rate switch contacts or relay contacts higher than you might expect from wiring size alone. This is due to surges at start-up (in the case of incandescent lights for example), or arcs at switch-off (for inductive loads).

    Linky to confirm I'm not making this up. :)
     
    EZ_Pete, Dec 16, 2014
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  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the cabling will be fine as its all gonna be the same spec as it was before the switch. all it is on the ignition switch the 15 and X feeds are 2 tracks inside the switch, and you'll be putting it all thru the same switch if you put just the one on the dash.

    as I say most of the X feeds in the car so the blowers, the wipers etc are fed from the x-over relay anyway so no load from those, its just the dip and main beams which are fed thru the ignition switch not the relay. so if you were to have 2x main beams on there while driving about it could possibly overload the switch.

    as you say you could put 2 switches in, fit a relay just for the lights, or if its a pure track weapon without any dip or main beam lights at all you dont need to worry :)
     
    rubjonny, Dec 16, 2014
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  13. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Cheers for your help, makes sense.
     
    vr6smith, Dec 16, 2014
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  14. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    Wired up the switches today as per rubjonnys instructions. The car turns and fires for a breif moment and cuts out. Everything works lights, wipers etc but it won't run.

    I have two ignition switches one for the x relay and one for the coil to reduce the load on one switch. a started button with the black starter crank wire all wired to the perminent live.

    I have not wired in the key in ignition live or park light cables.

    Help please :cry:

    **Edit** think ive narrowed it down to the crimp connectors I've used not being up to the job so got some 25amp rated ones I know will be ok rather than using my spares tin of connectors. I don't think they were letting the current through enough for the engine to run. The car runs fine with the barrel wired back up so will try again when I have the connectors
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
    vr6smith, Feb 28, 2015
    #14
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    how brief? could it be ecu immobiliser kicking in?
     
    rubjonny, Mar 2, 2015
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  16. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    No immobiliser fitted. I have just wired the barrel in and it's running fine. So the engine and car are sound.

    I have used 25amp rated connectors and switches. Wired up excactly as instructed but it fires for less than a couple of seconds.

    Could the key in wire do something? It's not connected as I have no stereo but does it prime the pump maybe??

    Cars currently running as I write this on the key barrel.
     
    vr6smith, Mar 2, 2015
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  17. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    ign switch is as follows:

    Wired to ignition switch 2 is 15 - black - ignition live for coil etc
    Wired to ignition switch 1 is X - yellow/black - x-over live for blowers, lights, wipers etc
    Wired to ignition switch 1&2 and push button start is 30 - red - perm live input
    Wired to push button start is 50 - red/black - starter cranking live
    Not wired are
    P - grey - parking lights
    SU - red/brown - key-in-ignition live for stereo and lights on warning relay
     
    vr6smith, Mar 2, 2015
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  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    hmm should be fine, maybe have a multimeter on the black output wire and make sure you get nice strong 12v feed with ignition and after starting :)
     
    rubjonny, Mar 2, 2015
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  19. VR6SMITH

    vr6smith Forum Member

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    I'll give it a try thanks.
     
    vr6smith, Mar 2, 2015
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  20. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    if its weak then you may have to add relays i recon!
     
    rubjonny, Mar 3, 2015
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