MK1/2 Golf Tilt & Slide Sunroof fitting

Discussion in 'Styling, Trim and Bodywork' started by rubjonny, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    1. GETTING THE PARTS

    You can get the parts from the early square shape Audi 80 & Quattro or Scirroco. There are more than likely other donor cars out there but these work.

    When you find a sunroof, make sure you have the following parts –
    • Sunroof panel with hinge assembly, guide brackets, edge seal and plastic sidepieces.
    • Left and right drive cables.
    • Front flat cable rail with gearing block.
    • Left and right broad flat guide rails with plastic locating pins/lugs fitted at the rear end.
    • Trim panel clipped and sprung to sunroof panel, with cross bar and spring.
    • Winder handle with sprung loaded ‘push’ button intact.

    complete stripped down assembly:



    [​IMG][​IMG]



    Before you part with your cash look for:
    • Missing Broken Bits, - especially those that are mounted directly to the underside of the sunroof panel itself. There are moving components under there which are prone to damage if there’s been another car stacked on the roof at some time.
    • Sunroof Panel Rot - Water can get into the sunroof panel itself and cause havoc. This is worst at the edges and corners. If you can, wind the roof until it’s tilted up and pry off the trim/seal from around the exposed panel rear corners. If it’s rotten there you’ll hear it as the seal comes away - minor rust can be cured of course, but it’s your call.
    • Trim Condition - A colour match in both paint and trim material would be a bonus, but be prepared to repaint the panel and retrim where required. I have recovered the trim panel and got the paint to match the Golf. Plastic can be sprayed with bumper paint.



    2. PREPARATION

    Get the new sunroof completely ready before you take the old one out! The paint colour and finish speaks for itself. If it’s to be painted then strip the brackets off - but remember how they fit!

    Trim - The tilt/slide sunroof trim is different from the Golf standard - there’s more of it to start with so you’ll need a bit extra - don’t forget this when you’re searching around the breakers! The Golf original trim has one single solid panel that is clipped to the sunroof panel, whereas the tilting sunroof trim also has a fixed sliding panel following the roof, but incorporates an inner section that tilts up with the roof to hide all the brackets and runners from the drivers view. I simply recovered the Audi trim carefully (and tightly) using impact adhesive to mount the Golf fabric. Fussy job, but with care a good permanent result can be achieved.

    Clean and lubricate the runners and brackets - you’ll not be able to clean and lube properly when the new roof is fitted in. Pay attention to the runners and cable channels within the broad side guide rails in particular. I used normal grease once everything was clean.

    Removing the original Golf roof - this is covered in the Haynes manual, but basically whilst inside the car partly open the roof, prise off the trim panel and push it to the rear to expose the sunroof panel mounting screws and spring clips, and whip the lot off. Lift the sunroof panel away carefully as there's a water trap fitted to the back end of it that you cannot see until it's out of the car. There's a sprung loaded deflector plate fitted to the front of the sunroof that pops up when the roof is wound open - watch for this as you remove the mounting screws as it'll leap forward like a whack your bodywork.

    Remove the winder handle to expose the gearing block, and remove the gearing block (two screws).

    Next working outside and above the car and remove the crosshead screws on the exposed side guide rails and front strip. The screws are sketched out below:


    [​IMG]

    RED = CAR ROOF,

    PINK/PEACH = SUNROOF 'WELL'

    GREY = GUIDES AND RAILS

    BLACK = CLAMP PLATES

    LIGHT GREEN = SELF TAPPING SCREWS

    PURPLE = THREADED SCREWS

    DARK GREEN = SPOILER MOUNTING POINTS


    Now the guide rails and front strip can be lifted out and forwards all together. Go slowly and ease it out. You’ll see at this point that the sunroof side rails are held at the rear by the plastic lugs/pins, and all the actual fitting screws are within the sunroof ‘well’ area itself and easy to get at - there’s no awkward hidden screws to contend with. Take a note of how the cables are routed and how the three parts fit together.

    Take the new sunroof panel, side rails and front strip to a clean flat surface. Fit the side rails to the sunroof, as they would be on the car (exactly as the one you’ve just taken out). Take care to get the thing together correctly as there are ‘slides’ each side to get onto the guide rails. Feed the drive cables through the respective channels in the front strip and carefully slide the side rails up to the front plate

    Now hold the side rails and front strip firmly together on the flat surface and begin to ease the roof panel forward until it goes up into its tilt position. This may not happen first time and will take a bit of fiddling, but time spent doing this away from the car will avoid big problems during installation. If it’s easier move an inch or so each side but keep things even and squared up. You want to end up with the tilted sunroof sat fitted to the side rails and front plate. This lot can be easily handled as the drive cables and sunroof panel front and rear sliders hold it all together firmly. Don’t fit the trim panel, as you will need access to rig the roof position. It should look like this:

    [​IMG]



    3. FITTING & FETTLING

    Here’s the clever bit. You can lift the lot into the car roof without scratching or squeezing anything. The sunroof panel won’t hit the car and you can see from inside the car if the guide rail locating pins/lugs are seated correctly at the back of the roof compartment (OK, you’ll need a small torch and have to squeeze your head to one side - but if the rear plastic pins/lugs aren’t located in their holes the sunroof will jam when wound backwards. Believe me.) There are channels in the car body that the sunroof assembly will drop into and will line everything up nicely. Now you will get the idea of how good the roof looks on your car!

    From inside the car fit the gearing block (Read the warning below). The block should be lined up almost perfectly though you may have to shuffle the lot forward a tiny bit. Now fit the winder handle.
    • WARNING Gearing block differences

    The gearing block is not all it seems. It is not the free turning toothed drive you would think. The VAG boys were clever with this bit - this part is what stops you winding the sunroof out through the tailgate or the windscreen, as it will only turn the drive a set number of times before it locks.

    The Golf unit will rotate only enough turns to put the sunroof between open and closed. The Audi unit has a set number of turns, but incorporates a sprung pin that is released down to lock the winder handle when the roof should be at its fully open, fully closed, or tilted position. If have the roof fully open and wind it closed, the handle locks when the roof is closed. You cannot now tilt the roof until the button on the winder is pressed to release the gearing. The winder then locks again at the tilt position. Geddit?

    You must ensure that you fit the gearing block correctly or else it will stop the sunroof from moving as it runs out of turns! With the sunroof in the tilt position the winder must be at the end of its turns - and not just held by the spring pin.


    The sunroof assembly is now held at the rear with the lugs, in the middle by the cables and runners, and at the front by the front plate/gearing block from inside the car.

    Wind the sunroof slowly down flat and rearward enough to expose where the fixing screws can be fitted. Fit the screws. That’s now the roof fitted, we just need to rig it:

    Rigging the Roof

    Wind the roof to the closed position and ensure that the panel is flush with the car roof. If it isn’t then tilt the sunroof up and look at the rear of the guide bracket fitted to the panel. There is an adjustment screw there, to the right of the larger rear adjustment screw (see photo) holding the panel and bracket together. Slack that of and adjust as required. Front adjustments are made on the hinge assembly. With a bit of fiddling, you can line the roof up nicely. Wind the roof about a bit between adjustments to let everything settle. The adjustment screw locations are shown below:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Left picture shows forward adjustment. Right picture shows rear adjustment (Note second adjustment screw to right of this)

    If the roof won’t drop and wind backwards to fully open, it may be that the sunroof is rubbing against the car body itself along the rear seal face. Take a look at the rear of the guide brackets fitted to the sunroof itself. There is a sliding foot that drops into a slot in the main rail, to drop the roof and allow it to travel rearwards without hitting the car body. These can be adjusted forwards and backward to allow the roof to drop before it hits anything, and should clear up the problem. You can see this in the photo (above, right) alongside the main adjustment screw.

    If you have problems with the rigging it may be advisable to remove the sunroof panel seal completely, rig the roof and ensure its full and free range of movement, the refit the seal once everything is set up.

    Once the roof is rigged correctly and moves smoothly, you’ll need to take it all out again and fit the trim panel (and sunroof panel seal if removed to aid the rigging) – it’s very awkward to fit with the roof in the car. The panel sits within the guide rails, clipped to the hinge bar at the front of the roof. The section that moves up when the roof is tilted is hinged to the main trim panel and connected to the sunroof itself with a spring that hooks onto a bar mounted clip. Once this is done, refit the whole lot – the rigging is done, so just ensure the roof is sat squarely once it’s all in.

    I'd say that this will either go right pretty quickly, or you may be there for a while. No pressure of forcing is needed when the thing is set up correctly so don't be tempted to get physical!



    4. FOLLOW UP CHECKS

    If the roof is aligned and even all round - i.e. Smooth operation through the whole range of movement, then there is little to check. Get that bucket of water and pour it over the closed roof, to see that it doesn’t leak and that the drain tubes are OK within the sunroof well.

    If any water gets in (and I doubt it) recheck the alignment by taking off the outer trim seal and closing the roof. The panel should be evenly positioned in the roof - it may be too far forward or sat crooked. If this is the case remove the gearing block (frees the two drive cables to slide independently) and nudge the roof square, refit the block and winder and test again. Some water will get past the sunroof seal, but there are channels and traps to take this water away -–it shouldn't get into the car interior though!!



    5. ELECTRIC!

    Rockwell makes VAG sunroofs – so I tracked down a motor from the same manufacturer, as the drive gear would be a match to the sunroof fitted. You’ll find suitable motors in Vauxhall Carltons and Volvos. (Mine is from a G plate Carlton and cost 25 with the switch and wiring). The motor incorporates the same ‘travel stops’ as the hand winder, you just press the switch again to tilt the roof, etc, so there’s no rigging to do – just fit the motor in the right drive position.

    I removed the hand winder and gear block, offered up the motor and marked up for the mounting holes. The holes needed line up with the gutter inside the sunroof well, so two self tapping screws went in, and the threads sealed with sealant in the gutter. It sounds messy, but is a neat job once it’s done. There is a rubber anti vibration mount used in the Carlton at the rear of the motor, but I did not use it as the motor is supported much better in the Golf roof than that of the Carlton!

    The trim I used to cover the motor and house the switches was from a Volvo and it’s an almost perfect fit – surplus Golf trim material from the sunroof trim recovering was used for a perfect finish, but the Volvo piece was Grey plastic and would have been OK without the exact interior match. The switches were sprayed with Grey bumper paint to blend in. You’ll have to mount the interior light into this trim too, and I chose to use one from a Renault 11 as it’s smaller than the Golf item, but I wired in the light delay unit from the Golf. This photo will give you an idea of the end result, which I'm pleased with:

    [​IMG]

    The switch and motor earthing cables were fitted in the roof, and the feed wire run under the trim down to the ignition switch and an in line fuse fitted close to the ignition barrel itself. This allows power to the roof only with the ignition on, and avoids any long live wires in case of mishap in the future such as a motor failure, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    Some notes:
    This guide wasn't written by me, it was written by john wintle so all credit goes to him (I assume, based on the original web link name?) I have trimmed it down a little so it all fitted into 1 post (character limit on CGTI is 14000), and corrected a couple of small errors.
    The MK2 Golf seal is the same as the Scirocco one, but the new seal will be a tight fit. some grease will help it bed in.
    sorry the pics arn't working right now, I'm having some issues with the redirect. it should kick back in shortly I hope!

    also, a note on the trim panel. you can fit it all in 1 go with the trim panel in place rather than fitting it, fettling then remove it all and refit with the panel on. All you need is a tool to connect the spring on the panel to the roof, the MK1 bentley shows this. tbh it looks like a coat hanger with a hook bent on the end! Also I found it much easier to fit the rails to the car 1st, without attaching the roof panel. Same way you removed the old MK2 stuff, fitting it all in 1 go was a nightmare as the plastic retaining lugs were a real pain to slot into the holes.

    So in short, fit the trim panel, fit the rails, then drop the metal panel in last. Adjust it all, tilt the roof open then use your tool to fit the spring :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  3. Funky Diver Forum Member

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  4. scotty114 Forum Member

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    Refitted sunroof exactly how i took it out but now it does not open or close any idea's [:x]
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    probably the cables are misaligned, or you didnt get the plastic pegs into the holes in the back of the roof opening.

    take the roof panel off again and check, as per my post just above you can attach the inner trim to the metal panel using a bit of bent coathanger! its far easier to fit all the runners etc to the car without the roof skin in place as then you can make sure you get the plastic pegs hooked into shell properly
     
  6. scotty114 Forum Member

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    Thanks i will give a try at the weekend what are the plastic pegs for just to locate ???
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    it holds the rear of the roof guide channels in place, without em the backs of the guides can move about. if you dont get em in the hole usually they go kinda inside the holes, which squeezes the rails together a bit and jams the roof!

    you can get it in all together in one piece but it might take a couple tries. right pain in the **** I found :lol:
     
  8. lostprophet99

    lostprophet99 Forum Member

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    Just a quick question about this

    Are you meant to use the Standard Mk2 Spoiler with the Tilt/Slide Sunroof?
    My Friend and i gave the rails a trial fit earlier and as far as i can see we need to fit the mk2 spoilers brackets to be able to secure the rails at the front.

    Does that make sense? :)

    Thanks,
    Andy

    P.s.
    Once i've got the panel painted and know how to put it together,I'll take some step by step High Def photos and put them up if you like?
     
  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    the spoiler is the same between mk2 and scirocco, as are the 2 arms that make it flip up n down. lots of the parts are the same, or very similar. the front cable guide is the same too, as are some of the bolts and brackets. the main differences are the channels the cables them selves and the way the roof attaches to them.

    I'm planning to do a much better guide on this soon as i have one to fit to my car :thumbup:

    one thing i found is the basic panel itself is the same as well, the difference is in the brackets that are welded to it. you can convert a mk2 roof panel to fit a tilt n slide mech simply by adding in 4 L brackets [:D]
     
    Alexandros St likes this.
  10. lostprophet99

    lostprophet99 Forum Member

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    Thanks for that chap :)


    So if the panel is the same,apart from the brackets,will the original mk2 suroof seal fit?
     
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yep the mk2 seal is the same as scirocco and corrado :thumbup:
    when you buy a new one you just chop it down to suit as the seal as supplied is too long. costs around 50 from the dealer
     
  12. lostprophet99

    lostprophet99 Forum Member

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    I don't suppose anybody would have a close up picture of the bracket that sits in the 2 runners and secures them to the roof of the car with the 3 screws would they?
    My roof is missing them and i want to make some up. [:^(]
     
  13. lostprophet99

    lostprophet99 Forum Member

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    Also,Has anyone got a picture of there Tilt and silde roof at its maximum tilted position?
    Would like to compare to see if mine is going high enough :)
     
  14. allana13 New Member

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    Hi Folks

    When i slide my sunroof down and bring it back to close it it doesnt. What i found that as soon as i open the sun roof the wind deflector opens op and i have to press it down to close the sunroof completly.... is it not so i shouldnt have to manually press it down.

    Also a 2nd question. How do i replace the seal without removing the sunroof.
     
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    1. deflector is pushed down by 2 arms either side, they can corrode and so stop doing their job. vw will sell you stainless replacements, and usually cheaper than the ones on ebay

    2. you cant! you have to remove panel to replace the seal. try to remove the panel from the mechanism, as it saves hassle when you refit. takign the entire panel out is a lot of effort especially if you're on your own! plus its possible the mech can get out of alignment causing the roof to jamb especially on a tilt n slide, so another reason its best to just remove the panel
     
  16. allana13 New Member

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    :thumbup:
    Thanks Sir John

    ! more how do u replace the arem. I have just had a look and cant seen any arm. it just had a spring by which i can push the pannel down
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    the arms are held on with 1 screw either side of the panel, the end hooks into the deflector flap. simples!

    part numbers:
    443 877 681 D - left arm - 14.67+VAT
    443 877 682 D - right arm - NLA :(

    screw is N 0142102, 36p+VAT you'll need 2 of these 1 per side. spec is M4x15 countersunk, posi drive if you have decent local bolts supplier.

    since 1 side is NLA you'll have to get on ebay, dont let them rip you off though! you could still ask your dealer nicely, he may be able to locate old stock in a warehouse for you :)
     
  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  19. allana13 New Member

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    :clap::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

    Will let you know how i get on

    Thanks million mate
    Honestley..... Thanks
     

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