PB Engine- BANG@70, blown to pieces!

Discussion in '8-valve' started by mk28vICED, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    yeah the knock sensor was already cracked, been meaning to replace it.....ive been running through me head all the little things that have gone wrong....like gearboxes siezing and head gasket leaking behind intermediate pulley, different sparkies and oil but i dont see how they have contributed to this detonation....
    i had been getting an on/off power knock and have found the rear engine mount to be knackered!
    had a lot of engine offers from people so should have a 2e soon....then the work begins...
    whilsts im at it im going to polybush the cross member and steering rack and change the rear engine mount and both its brackets...
     
  2. IanCarvell Forum Member

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    How are you getting on mate?????
     
  3. Phil. Forum Junkie

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    So were you running without a knock sensor for a while?
     
  4. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Looks to me like he still had one... whether it was working or not... who knows?! Only way to tell without doing the proper test, is if the car pinks like a barsteward.
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    if you can get to bracknell i have a good PB lump you can have for free, also got a rear mount bracket somewhere too!
     
  6. The db

    The db Forum Junkie

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    Rubjohnny I'm real close to you......... and I need an engine I think :lol: Think I've killed mine :lol: Well I've definately killed the water pump and the clutch... and its got very tappetty and idles all over the place - need a cheap fix as the car probably isn't worth more than 50
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Cool, I need rid of it asap :)
    I've stripped the water pump off, but I've still got it, and the oil cooler is leaking. Apart from the usual surface rust its in good shape. The thermostat was recently replaced, along with the sump & gasket and it still has a recent sumpfull of synta silver :lol:

    I have a bag of tappets I happen to have lying around you can take as well if you like, I cant say if they work fine or not but they came out of a rebuilt head so I'd assume they're ok.
     
  8. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    hi guys,
    progress is quite slow, been working at donington building/taking down awnings for the btcc for the last week!
    managed to pick up a 51k 2e out of a m plate mk3 gti though.[:D]
    unfotnunatly i drove it home and the engine rolled over and snapped one of the ht lead ends off... its stuck in the the dizzy cap.....guess i should put a new cap on it anyway.
    today is my only day off so going to strip the 2e engine abit....
    working in france for the next week @paul ricard then only one day off !
    before going down to snett for btcc build then derig after race...
    so busy at work! but determined to get the mk2 back on the road before nurburg!
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    i do really need a rear engine bracket...the mk3 one wont mate up to the rear mount will it?

    cant remember what socket i should use for the flywheel bolts- looks like spline socket or something. dont remember buying special sockets when i did my clutch&gearbox...anyone know?
    As for the knock sensor...the car was popping on the downchange and when i backed off the throttle quickly before it blew up....not too bad though... the cracked sensor could have been the cause of the popping if it was giving an incorrect reading to the ecu i guess...
    cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  9. Phil. Forum Junkie

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    Nice one. That all looks so familiar :)

    Re: the flywheel bolts, I used a 9mm ring spanner for the 9no flywheel bolts and for the 6 crank bolts I locked the flywheel with a spanner and a flywheel bolt through the pressure plate. Dead easy.
     
  10. IanCarvell Forum Member

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    9mm bi-hex for the flywheel bolts matey.

    What btcc team do you work for?
     
  11. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    duh, now i remember...flywheel bolts are just a multipoint socket....:lol:
    actually work for porsche who run the porsche carrera cup alongside the btcc.
    help build the series' race centre which is basically a big wrap around awning off a porsche bus and also a 44t trailer... at donny also had to build a big corporate solid marquee type structure on the infield at redgrave..its ferrari im going to paul ricard with though.

    stripped some bits off the front of the engine.....lots of brackets and bolts!!!!
    altenator, pipes, wiring loom, alt brackets, power steering pump & bracket i think
    ..The engine moved really easily when i tried to undo one of the pump pulleys the flywheel turned...hey at least it aint siezed :lol:
    found i need a deep socket for the water pump double sided bolts and oil cooler sender etc at my sockets just bottommed out... a drop spanner might do the pump bolts and any old spanner the others...

    need to turn the engine round now for the back... dont know if i can lift it on my own!
    prob post some more pics later on...
     
  12. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    they arent that heavy! try to keep the bolt you remove in some sort of order, i just threw mine in a box now i seem to spend my time searching for the correct ones, I know they are there i just cant find the Ba####ds.

    I think the mk3 bracket is the same, he says with a worried look on his face.
     
  13. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    :) if i can i screw the bolts back in when i have removed the part...but still have 40 in a heap![:s]
    ive stopped now, because i dont know whether i need to mark the timing belt in relation to the camshaft position(see pic) ....one red mark on camshaft pullet with a T and a C either side i think.
    My idea is to mark the timing belt using cam pulley markings, pull it off the cam pulley but keep the tension on it so it stays put on the crank pulley, then put new head and cam on and put timing belt in same position using markings on digi cam pulley???
    Also the flywheel position... it has two diagonal cast marking and one slit on it do i need to put the 8v flywheel in exactly the same place? for timing purposes...?
    i hate timing!!!

    found AAG i think on the back of the inlet....hope thats not an engine code stamped there....?

    snapped one of the studs for the exhaust mount in the 2e head [:$] ...lucky i dont need it!
    apart from that stripped down well with some uber good rust loosener! was so suprised how light the ally inlet manifold and throttle body are!

    Is the removal of cam and head the same as for a pb lump...i.e the unscrewing order of the cam nuts and head bolts??[:s]

    its got a belly full of oil so havent attempted the oil cooler yet or even taken the filter off...

    Cant get the ancillary crankshaft pulley off as the thing just turns the engine over when i try to undo the 4 allen head bolts. need three arms to hold the torque wrench square, hold the flywheel and undo the bolts! [:s]

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    removed injector rail.....4 x 5mm hex head bolts i think

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    removed inlet manifold....interesting casting lines in the ports i thought...very clean in them

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    removed rocker cover 8 10mm nuts & exhaust manifold 8 12mm nuts & rear mount bracket... 4 13mm bolts....
    lower 2nd in from g'box end manifold nut could only be got at with a spanner as sockets couldnt get it there...must be hard if engine in car!

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    front almost bare

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    cam pulley marks...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  14. Phil. Forum Junkie

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    I believe you go by the inside of the cam sprocket for setting the timing although I'm doing the exact same conversion and haven't marked anything!!

    It's not a problem as you will be using a different cam and sprocket when rebuilding, same goes for the gearbox, I assume you are using the mk2 8v box in which case the flywheel holes are staggered and it wil only line up one way - the right way.

    Dizzy will be changed to no point in marking the position of the imtermediate shaft relative to the dizzy. Basically I didn't bother marking anything as most if it will be changed and you'll be putting new belts on anyway.

    And for removing the head, it's the exact same as a PB, I just removed the bolts in order although I don't think it's neccessary on removal. Remove the tensioner, slip the belt off (you'll need to get the main crank pulley off and the bottom timing cover) Then remove the black back plate thingy behind the belt as this is bolted to both block and head by 3 bolts iirc, then the head should lift off. I'd also remove the knock sensor and put it somewhere safe ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    1. Cam marks line up the O-T mark with the arrow on the rocker cover, as for flywheel you use the small punch mark to line it up with TDC not the larger arrow. I think it would be best to use your old flywheel, I'm not sure that the 2e fly marks are the same?
    Also If I were you I'd use the 2e cam gear on your old cam if the old one doesn't have the 'OT' mark on it, and use the 2e rocker cover. Makes lining the cam up to TDC dead easy as you can just use the OT mark rather than taking the rocker cover off to use the punch mark on the inside of the mk2 sproket.
    2. Yep cam & head removal is same on 2e lump
    3. Use a multipoint 19mm socket & breaker bar on the crank bolt to hold the engine still while you undo the allen bolts, its done up to uber torque so it wont come undone :thumbup:

    The engine code & number is written on the top of the timing belt cover if its not rubbed away?

    Phill: You can keep the 2e dizzy if you are going to run the engine with MK2 digifant management :)

    Oh and I'd leave the knock sensor on the block, it will work fine with digi managemnet and since it must be done up to a specific torque it'll save worrying about doing it up right later.
     
  16. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    nice one rubjonny! ill see what i can do if i get stuck ill post! its the main thing im worried about...not being able to start at the end of the conversion!
    stealth is only 10miles down the road so if all else fails i'll trailer it down there!

    took the head OFF this afternoon!
    i can see most of the original cross hatching on the bores although there are afew wear marks mid stroke on the inside front and back of 2 or 3 of the cylinders...pics to follow tommorrow...
    do i need to change the pressure plate???...took the flywheel off and clutch then started on pressure plate bolts...then realised they are stretch bolts? and if i dont need to change them ive just cost myself new bolts! rounded 2 of 4 alan head bolts on the aux crank pulley and used a hammered in 6mm spline bit to get them out... came off eventually....
    emptied the sump of oil and took the filter off...only oil cooler to get off now...
    then time to rip the PB lump out!

    need to start getting bits together.... abf metal head gasket, digi inlet and exhaust manifold gaskets, head bolts, new water pump, rear engine mount and engine mount bracket, steering rack poly bushes, 5L synta silver, 2e rotor arm and distributor cap, 2e timing belt, orange oil level dipstick holder, mk3 weighted gear shift rod.:o

    anything on that list that should be O.E rather than GSF?
    cheers for any help!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    If it looks ok you could re-use the pressure plate, but I'd replace it, dont want to have to take the box out again :lol:
    Yes the pp bolts are 1 use! Get yourself a sachs clutch kit and it will come with a new pressure plate & bolts, plus the friction disc, release plate, retaining ring & proper clutch spline grease :thumbup:

    I'd get an OE thermostat if possible, but GSF ones should be ok. Oh, and get a MK2 16v/G60 rear engine mount, much stronger than the 8v one :)
     
  18. Phil. Forum Junkie

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    :lol: Why did I type that! I know this. [:$]

    and I meant put the knock sensor somewhere safe thinking he would be moving the block about to clean and paint it, wouldn't want to break or damage it as he doesn't have a spare and they ain't cheap. [:$].

    I'd add OE head bolts to that list. Few threads recently about cheap ones stretching out and iirc some even bottoming out?

    Remember you need the plastic elbow on the bottom of the water pump from the pb engine to mate up with the hoses.

    I also have new bolts/nuts/studs for pretty much near everything on standby (if I ever get to use them [:^(] )
     
  19. mk28vICED Forum Member

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    already got an as new pressure plate/clutch etc on the pb lump to swap over to the 2e block...
    got a few more pics...started to clean the block up...
    but what do you think of the wear???
    can still see most of the original crosshatching exceprt for these 'burn' marks...
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    working for a wekk so be back on the project after then...[:s]
     
  20. maxmo

    maxmo Forum Member

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    How are you finding moving the engine weight wise? I'd love to do a swap to my 1600, but my lack of lifting gear worries me.
    Don't really want to hire a crane to lift an engine out my car when I bring it back from the breakers. I'm not exactly mr. muscle either.
     

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