THE 1.8-2.0 16v head info thread

Discussion in '16-valve' started by Xiotis, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. TrackCab16v Forum Member

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    reckon your proberbly spot on with that one gurds , it s proberbly same reason a kr head works well on a abf block, may be it gives a tad more compression,
     
  2. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    I've been running KR Head/ABF Bottom end for ten years i was getting 11.0:1 compression.

    Just fitted new Wossner 82.5mm pistons 12.0 : 1 Comp etc will be interesting to se final result.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  3. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    After giving out some incorrect information due to my own confusion, I've been doing a bit more research into the differences between the heads over the years. To start with I'll expand on Toyotecs already excellent post regarding head casting numbers, with firm engine code and manufacturing dates as supplied by ETKA.
    However, please note that the year the engine was made may not match up to the year it was fitted to your car!

    Head castings:
    051 103 351:
    KR to April/May 89 (engine codes up to KR 125 357)
    PL to April/May 89 (engine code around PL 078 085, rough guess as no firm codes can be found on etka)

    053 103 351:
    9a to early 93 (engine codes up to 9A 124 944)
    6A All? (seems this way, on Audi 80 the 6a stops with this casting, then ACE comes in with the B casting)
    KR between April/May 89 and end of production (engine codes from KR 125 358)
    PL between April/May 89 and end of production (engine codes from around PL 079 085, rough guess as no firm codes can be found on etka)

    053 103 351 B:
    ACE to late Feb 94 (engine code up to ACE 017 542)
    ADL All? (seems this way, can find no mention of ADL with any other head casting)
    9A between early 93 up until 30/10/94 (engine codes 9A 124 945 - 9A 131 460)
    ABF to mid 94 (engine code up to ABF 031 251)

    053 103 351 C:
    9a from 30/10/94 (engine code from 9A 131 461)
    ABF from mid 94 (engine code from ABF 031 252)
    ACE from late Feb 94 (engine code from ACE 017 543)

    Nuts & studs vs. bolt fixings on the rocker cover:
    This doesn't neatly tally up to a head casting change over engine number on the 9a, it was actually just before the 9a head was switched from the B to the C casting. On the ABF/ACE it does match the switch from the B to the C casting. So it seems this changeover was made on the ABF/ACE engines, then retrofitted to the 9a? The rocker gaskets differ between the 2 types, and cannot easily be interchanged. The end cam caps need to be swapped, which is generally not recommended due to the line bore issue, but it has been done successfully in the past.

    Bolt fixing:
    9a to 31/01/94 (engine code 9A 131 263)
    ABF to mid 94 (engine code up to ABF 031 251)
    ACE to late Feb 94 (engine code up to ACE 017 542)

    Stud & nut fixing:
    9a from 31/01/94 (engine code 9A 131 264)
    ABF from mid 94 (engine code from ABF 031 252)
    ACE from late Feb 94 (engine code from ACE 017 543)

    Combustion chamber sizes:
    Early KR has a smaller chamber than the ABF, but what about early 9a/late kr casting? Also found some info that ABF chamber has a rased section which increases the CR? This is what I'd like some more info about.

    Here is some info from Brookster/Toyotec showing ABF vs KR:
    and a bit of info from Hotgolf:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  4. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    John,

    Should mention be made of the 051 103 373D as fitted to my 9A here?
     
  5. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Merging with a previous thread.... we can tidy up some of the spurious posts....
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Trev, the part number of your head I beleive is for the whole thing includeing cams, the part numbers originally posted by toyo and an my post are for the bare head casting only :)
     
  7. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    That's a stock ABF head casting isn't it.

    I should know better than contradict RJ (Rule 1: RJ is always right!) but I think that's just the rough casting number, based on my own experience in the car industry.

    That number doesn't get any hits on VAGCAT, but if anyone's got EKTA, that'll probably be more reliable.
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah it is abf apparently, check out toyos posts close to the top o the thread! also apparently the D number is the part # for the head with cams, not the base casting number. either way, the numbers I have posted are what ETKA are listing currently for the bare head casting.

    I could go thru and check numbers for the head + cams, but prob bugger all use as its likely to have been superceeded many times so unlikely that anyone with original engines will be able to match it to what they have!

    edit: i was kinda hoping to have my thread nice and clean and just update post #1 as info comes in, but oh well :lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  9. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I tried it in VAGCAT with and without the D suffix, but got nothing. Sorry if I messed up your thread idea John, but to me it seemed to dovetail nicely with the info in the other one, based on a quick look.

    If you think it's a separate topic, please explain it to me, in small, easy words ;)
     
  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    is alright chap, try to get some extra infos in here and it should be good to go! mainly its clarification of combustion chamber on head I'm looking for, want to know if late kr/early 9a head is large like abf or small like kr...
     
  11. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    All the later motors with the 373D cylinder heads have improved combustion chambers, 27mm exhaust valve heads, less imperfections in port runners than the older stuff.
    This is one way the higher performance 150bhp ABF motor was able to pass EU1 and later EU2 emissions and CO2 targets. This update part allowed engines with CIS-E controls to hang on to 1995.
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    perfect, so is the copmpression on the later KR reduced then, or does the 'bump' mentioned by Hotgolf bring it back up again?
     
  13. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Later KR = later 051103373 head ( as in my picture) has similar combustion chamber to 027103373E (not pictured). The 027heads differ as it does not have coolant passages in the inlet ports, important for vapourising fuel dropped out of main fuel mass when ports are cold. All KR motors 86-92 had 10:1 CR as are later ADL Seat 1.8 16v engines with the 051103373D heads.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    ok so if I'm not getting confused (again)

    051 103 351 - small combustion chamber
    053 103 351 - small combustion chamber
    053 103 351 B - large combustion chamber
    053 103 351 C - large combustion chamber

    (small vs large chamber, as per your pics above with ABF head gasket to illustrate?)
     
  15. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The chambers cannot be identified as large of small as they hold the same volume. They are different shapes.

    The KR/9A unit would be a 051103351 casting and would have a foundary # as 051103373.
    The early 027103373E has been superceeded by the head above, 051......351.

    053 cylinder head numbers would be on later engines with 051103373D written on the head.
     
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    ah, so fitting an early KR head to an ABF wont increase the compression ratio? this is one I've seen doing the rounds atm.

    btw, I've added a complete breakdown of what heads were fitted to what engines, mostly right down to year/month and exact engine number the changes happened, its down the bottom of page 1. Could you have a look over it and see if there is anything that leaps out at you as being wrong? I got the info from ETKA, mostly from the Passat & Corrado sections as they show me engine code breaks rather than chassis code :)
     
  17. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The same place I collected the original infomation including talking to some of my sources.
    In the end I was able to summarise bare head numbers 027, 051 and 053, with what we see on the vehicle 373E 373 and 373D for VW, Seat and Audi vehicles.
    There is another thread, that I started in this forum that deals with a 16v cylinder head study. There other questions asked in there.
     
  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    did you definitly start one as I did look for all threads started by you and the only one i found was the camshaft study!
     
  19. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    If you can find it, we can merge it and create a definitive thread.
     
  20. chaddy74 New Member

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    I have a Seat Cupra Sports 1998 fitting with the 2.0L 16 Valve ABF what's the part number for that head casting ?

    Also Im looking at replacing the head on the car with this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI...87804531&_trkparms=tab=Watching#ht_877wt_1167

    Anyone see any drama's with this change over? obviously all valve train components need to be transferred to the new flowed head...... will that work or will I run into troubles in any way ? Advise would be appreciated .
     

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