Split: how they got > 200bhp + on a single plenum 16v

their dyno did'nt have wideband on there?
really?

 

If i say there is no lamda sonde on the car , must be : not build in the car
I saw a lambda value on his screen , dont ask me numbers , i dont know ( anymore after 9 months)
If you want to optimise things then you make there is a wideband lambda in the car and you log things and analise afterwards and do what is needed to .and test again and again
There was no intention to optimise things , i looked mainly on the power numbers going up

 

I have a friend that knows Steve Black.
Could possibly open up dialogue if you want to find anything out.
Yellow Sony jacket contact.

 

Try by all means. I've met folk that know Steve well, but I'm not sure he's totally into - what in his terms - will be historical info of no relevance to himself. I heard once the Golf campaign finished, all the paperwork got jettisoned, ditto the Seats. He's focused on various rallying stuff with his son and others AFAIK. Let me know what's possible - and let him know I have a blue Sony coat! - I'm regularly in the area where 586 Sport are based

 

I agree that getting loads of info would not be possible. But the odd question might get a response.

I heard they skipped a load of the Gemini gearboxes and other fancy parts when they stopped working with the Golfs.

 

The issue with engines is most of the answers lie at Lehmann. They arrive, they're installed, an engineer turns up, it's checked - done.

Ref the skip, this coincides with SBG being closed. I know where one sequential ended up. I'd imagine close down day did see a lot in the skip, as the business was formally wound up. Since once the VW money ceased, it needed to be put into administration, redundancies etc. I suspect there are tales around this, but there always are tbh.

I'd like to know how many Mk3s they built. I have eight from 1993>, but the private plates are a real nuisance.

 

From Mr Dogwood via email:

 

The Golf Mag First Edition (Well Lane Shoot Out) 1994

Mark Elliotts MK1 did 254bhp on the day with the 16vt
Mick Clements 1.8 16v MK1 154BHP
Rob Fish MK2 G60 200bhp
Richard Eyre MK1 2.0L 8V GTI Engineering 145BHP
Paul Mcallum MK2 VR6
etc

 

Great, will get comparative cars up later for some context.

 

Chris,

I assume that this was on KJet ? ... if so it`s a rather familiar spec

 

K-Jet 50mm inlet manifold

 

Thank you ...

 

All valvers on the day, for comparison:

Name|Car|Engine|Power|Mods SimonL|Mk2 16v|KR 1.8|144bhp @ 6,292rpm|K&N, Jetex 2.5" MickC|Mk1 16v|KR 1.8|154bhp @ 5,985rpm|Gas-flowed inlet, K&N, Ashley 4-1, Jetex 2.5" AnthonyG|Mk1 16v|6A/9A 2.0|163bhp @ 6,621RPM|Ported, polished, twin 45s on 36mm chokes, std cams, BRM 4-1 + Jetex JasonR|Mk2 16v|9A 2.0|198bhp @ 6,430 rpm|Gas flowed inlet & head, Schrick 276, Brospeed 4-2-1, Remus 2.25"

 

1994.

Christ we're old!

 

The days when 2.0L 16v's were rare and G60's even more so

 

From what I have seen it's definitely possible to get over (or around) 220 hp on the ABF 16v with the stock intake manifold - a Mk2 Golf 16v rally car which a buddy of mine owns made 189whp / 153wtq with his, which should be in the ballpark of 223 hp / 180 ft-lb tq. It's not running the stock engine management anymore, but it did quite well when it was and with the right tune I could see it making similar power.

Engine spec: ABF 16v, stock crank / rods, Wiseco 11.5:1 pistons, ported / polished head, Techtonics Tuning 288 degree hydro camshafts, Techtonics valve springs, 4-1 header, straight exhaust, run by an Autronic stand alone system. Everything balanced / blueprinted.

The guy doing the tuning said at this point the intake manifold was the restriction in the system, no doubt, and was confident he could get over 200whp with a short runner manifold, still running a single throttle body.

When running on stage rally spec it does run a muffler and a very tiny catalytic converter, so would likely make less but it hasn't been dyno'd as such yet. (the old run with the 276 cam set was a different tune, with muffler / cat, and on 93 octane RON+MON fuel)

Cheers,
-Nate

 

Post approved ^^

 

This plot shows it is possible to achieve 189whp@6800rpm and 153wlbft@6100rpm on what seems to be an SAE corrected dyno using a fuel grade other than pump? Plot suggests there is more development left to be done if the dip in torque is to be reduced.
Not sure that this 2.0 litre combination would equate to a peak torque 180lbft@????rpm SAE, Maybe 200bhp SAE @7000rpm (150lbft) with more tuning. But that torque quote looks a bit optimistic to reality. Engine torque curve seems very peaky.
Pity you are far away.

 

Yeah it's a stout little motor...always has been, from when it was imported and run stock and after the rebuild. Bone stock, with a free flowing exhaust and stock Bosch ECU, dirty paper air filter and no other modifications it made 141whp, which is knocking on stock 12v VR6 power.

The motor is built and tuned to run on 93 octane, but is usually run on 100 octane (RON+MON) for reliability and longevity. The dyno runs were on 100 octane...The engine was built by Justice Racing Engines, and tuned by Diebold Autosport. (both in Virginia, USA) - the parts though, the Wiseco pistons and Techtonics cams / valve springs, are pretty normal, not exotic parts.

The dyno is a Dynojet 248c, and for those plots correction is turned off and smoothing is turned all the way down. The location of the shop is such that it actually loses power on SAE correction, rather than artificially boosting the numbers, and with SAE correction turned on it would probably be 186-187whp depending on conditions. Full disclosure: The dyno is actually at a shop I work for (NGP Racing) and it is as accurate as any I've used...probably the most 'honest' Dynojet in the sense that most people expect huge numbers on it (with it being a Dynojet) and they're usually disappointed.

Couple vids of the dyno work, and then the car in action.

[YOUTUBE]1YeZNElfsNo[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YeZNElfsNo

[YOUTUBE]oZR7kSp2mIQ[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZR7kSp2mIQ

 

Sounds angry!
What happened to the MX5/Miata at ~45secs that plowed into the tyres!!
Still difficult to compare your numbers to what is typically seen here in Europe. Most aftermarket stuff here is tested to DIN, EC, SAE1995 or DD ATMC2 correction with peak flywheel torque at ~ <170lbft tested on supermarket RON 98-99. The TQ curve generally looks close to a few 'powerful' ones I have seen though.

Welcome to the forum by the way.