Chris a few people have been trying to point out that you cannot compare the cars on track, different boxes (FD's), driver tallent etc will play a big part in the overall performance... But looking at the peaks and lows of the WOT plot from any dyno will give you an idea if the figures are worth anything or are missleading... The point is if you put lairy cams on K-Jet it will feal peaky as you have shifted the peaks further up the rev range, but you have also just gone and lost out on a load of the midrange - somethinh K-Jet will not be able to handle. SEM/EFI etc could give you more area under the WOT graph for a standard engine compared to the said CFJ on Kjet and cams etc... Answer to your question: it will not make much difference chucking cams at a K-Jet car, what ever choice you make will be a compremise as the system cannot be optimised enough to change much, you may get some pub talk head line figures but that is all...
So cams wont make much difference on a Kjet , Ha-Ha !!! Would love to know on where you get your information from ? And Chris like my son said it's a shame you don't live a bit closer you could go for a spin in our car and see what you think of the Piper set up !
Well if you're happy to post the graphs, it can only add to the melting pot Just been having a dig into 'days of yore', in which the established tuning was undoubtedly: - 2.0l block - flowed head / cams / KR exhaust cam / WUR etc / exhaust in whichever particular order. Couple of threads found so far: This one shows Barny's and Speedo's, two very strong K-Jet motors 2.0 back in the day. Not 100% sure whether Speedo's was an RE2000 9A, or KR as suggested. If KR, it will be 94.5 x 82. If 9A it will be 92.8 x 82.5. Both in the 190s. Barny's of course is still in action. This one also, which shows MKD in K-Jet spec, 192.9bhp @ 6633rpm, 154lb ft @ 6354rpm, but 151bhp @ the wheels.
That is my opinon and responce to the OP's question and you did not read what I wrote correctly, there are better ways to be spending money if you are after performance, but cams, as said, will give you more pub numbers to talk about on K Jet ... just that they will never have their full benifit utilised... as I said dont just chuck them at the car, it would need setting up properly which as you know takes time... I love all the come jump in my car and see for yourself quotes and the on track performaces comparisons... come over and have a go in my Mrs MK1 OEM managment ABF... or/and have seat in my MK2...what you will be able to tell from that - I dont know! make sure you calibrate your ar2e dyno
Absolutely Chris. If you take the Bruntingthorpe day in isolation CFJ made the highest top speed on the old original box...another indication of it's healthy output when all things considered. Can't remember the exact top speed somewhere 135mph+ on recorded properly on their electronic gizmo's.The pure grunt gave the car a great result. (for the square MK2 shape!!) All things considered as previously stated by Chris, in the 80's most of the big reputable GTI tuners such as GTI Engineering, Brian Ricketts etc were all giving a set packages with a quoted power levels.The top of the range GTI Engineering car was displacing 2.1 and 190bhp. In the broad sense they were all sensible figures IMO and certainly I can remeber in Performance Car tested a RE2000 16V against a Ferrari 308 and they were very impressed with it's capabilities. Perhaps another RR day for 16v's should be organised in the future. I will certainly get the car onto the RR sometime soon.
This was part of the point to my other post - I'm not trying to rub people the wrong way or prove this is better or that's better just offer my advice that has been gained from my pocket, experience and research - but above somes up a lot for me, to get KJet Fueling correctly (an old worn out system on many cars) really needs setting up and having lots? of money splashed at it to make it work with the new cams (not just chuck them in), but how much? I would not like to ask as I'm a gent. But compare that expense and cams to the expensive 1k SEM... it really starts to add up and then the setup is still compromised as KJet cannot cope with the hardware additions - seems a bit of a waste to me. Even if the car would feel like it pulls really well. This thread has been very constructive and I hope it continues in this direction.
Bruntingthorpe data: Owner Car reg Engine Quoted power vMax Notes chrismc B6 MKD 9A 199.5bhp 132.74mph SCOTTG A-VUC 9A 202bhp 131.93mph ianb CFJ 9A 202bhp 135.52mph Trackcab16v YUU 9A 180bhp 130.17mph Igauna Monza blue Mk2 KR? 1.9 188bhp 131.38mph GVK GVK 9A 184bhp 131.26mph Tubthumped G-LET ABF 183bhp 127.77mph 3.94 final drive ltd speed As stated earlier, tracks are not a fair comparison, and we are talking engine output here, not talent! In a straight line, this should be the case, but as we know, Bruntingthorpe has run up around a corner onto the main straight for these top speed efforts. Technique and madness here will pay dividends, just as everyone knows that speed through Camp pays dividends at Quarry. Otherwise the other high spec K-Jet car, VUC, also quoted at 202bhp, would show 135mph, and it didn't.. 132 in with the others.
Yes it's not been cheap , and still not finished ! My point as always been that is if you are prepared to spend the money , and you know a company that can tune them properly then good figures are achievable from a K Jet car . And agreed an excellent thread
And more from the archives. MKD versus another car: CFJ 168 ATW stated here Note some of these graphs are not on same day.
Whatever the assumptions and oppinions by individuals all I know is how my engine feels and performs and that is great! It always amazes me how much banter my car causes. One thing I do know is that the staff who set it up built great VW Cup/Slick 50 championship winning engines of old at Tim Stiles and they had alot of experience with Kjet. CFJ certainly had a few hours dyno time and further time at Vince who knew his stuff. Whether it true figure is over 200 under 200 bhp I don't care. All I care about is how it performs in the real world and how it goes around a track. My everyday cars are built for comfort and economy it's all academic.
The runway is 2 MILES long Chris. More than long enough to negate whether myself, ianb or Lewis Hamilton happened to have taken the bottom corner onto it. In a mk2 topping out @ ~130 it doesn't take 2 miles to get there- trust me...its not like Ian was on slicks & everyone else on remoulds either. Other variables such as camber & track can of course have an effect on VMax- but as drag increases to the square of speed then CFJs results spoke for themselves ON THE DAY. Takes a fair amount more power to improve on factory VMax figures as was shown. VUC may have been slightly off colour or running different geometry- who knows? Just because it had X claimed output didn't mean it was necessarily exactly that on the day does it- isn't that the whole point of such gatherings? Please- no more hair splitting it's really not achieving anything
Not meaning to jump in and have my head bitten off here but Newman 272 cams for a 16v are 360 delivered
Think there needs to be. And more people should turn up. Talk is cheap. Let the dyno do the talking. That was the point of the last one though I'm sure.
A little `off the point` maybe ... but reflective What you can compare is how the car performs against it`s own `numbers`and whether or not you`re satisfied with it ... for the investment that you have made .... compared to others who have gone a different tuning route What do you consider `lairy`- I`ve run 268/276 and how have 290`s ... both on kjet, not peaky at all to me. Depending on how you wish to drive mid range might not be all that important to you. The 290`s engine is however still to be fully explored, not yet run in I don`t agree ... pick the right cams & settings and you`ll have serious fun. Nothing wrong with compromise if you`re satisfied with the results. Just ask the EVO guys from Donnington a while back where a certain Mk2 impressed them
Autosprint and Kent do regrinds too. HTH the 16v masif. Of course those cams are still twice the price of an 8v cam. I thought VWM got 180 odd out of their old 8v on Kjet.
