Dear VW fanatics, I'll introduce myself first, before I will ask you guys any kind of questions about my car. I am Niek, 22 years old and student automotive technology in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. I am the proud owner of a '95 Golf Mk.III with an ABF engine. It's in my possession for about 3,5 years and I have done a lot of things. Spraying some parts like the hood, doors and fenders. New wheels, brakes, clutch, coil-overs from Weitec, 20 Jahre lights, Hella red-black-red tail lights... And ofcourse the rust monster also came by. The car has got new sills on both sides, from front to back and new baseplates at some parts. Now it looks like: It also has custom made stainless steel exhaust, with Simons silencers, 200 cells cat and a 4-2-1 manifold. After these modifications the car has been chipped by JD Engineering, on the dyno. This was the result, and still is: [video=youtube;DnIQFdp871Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnIQFdp871Y[/video] I really like the way it drives now, but I am used to the performance now, and I would like to pull out a bit more. I have read all the threads here, about porting and polishing the head, about de camshafts and about many other modifications. I have some ideas about what to do next, but some friends say the horsepowers I will win, are very expensive. I know that's true, but I just love the way an atmosferic 16V revs up, and especially this one. First I was thinking about ITBs but that's a bit too expensive for me at the moment, and I would like to keep it running on Digifant. Plans: - Camshafts + pulley - Overhauling the cylinder head, with stronger valve springs and new seals, conductors, etc... - Porting and polishing the head - VR6 fuel pump, 4Bar - 4Bar fuel pressure regulator - Modifying the chip again at JD Engineering I like the smooth character right now, and I don't want to lose that. Choosing the cams can ruin this feeling, if you choose the wrong one. Catcams told me the 7661206 (262/261) are a good choice to keep that smooth character, but the standard cams are already 250/257, so I don't know if these cams give a noticeable difference? The lift is quite high, so I guess the engine gets a bit more torque. The 7661210, 266/262, had my attention as well, but according to Catcams those aren't suited 100% for an ABF, because of the milder injection. But if I let the ECU chip again, this argument is invalid? Or am I wrong? Do you guys have any tips? I know there's a lot of knowledge here . Greetings, Niek
The reason the 262/261 are interesting, I think, is because of the high lift (11,6mm and 11,2mm), and quite a short duration. According to Catcams, an ABF wouldn't idle badly with these cams. But I wonder if it is enough to reach a 190bhp - 200bhp, because the original cams almost have a similar duration (but lesser lift, I know)?
Welcome to the forum Niek. I am a fellow Mk3 owner. Unlike you, i have no clue about the real engineering, but an keen to learn from you and others on here. I like the theme of this thread, so want to hear what the greats experts on here have to say.
ITBs don't have to cost tons of money if you use 2nd hand parts from either motorbikes, BMW M vehicles, 1990's Toyota Corolla/Sprinter/Levin etc. These may also help you get near your target, but you will have to stop using the Digifant and use an aftermarket ECU. This is not a bad thing as you can learn to tune it yourself rather than having to pay JD to re-tune your ECU every time you make a large change. This assumes you are allowed to change the ECU in the Netherlands? Do you need the VR6 fuel pump? Have you determined that the item you have fitted to your Mk3 currently is not good enough? If you want it to be quicker, there is also the option of fitting a different gearbox from another VW with a higher number final drive. Shorter gearing giving more acceleration.
Well thank you! I know a little bit basic info, but I'm still learning and learning. Guys like Ess Three and Toyotec know a lot more about this.
I have done some research to ITBs, but I don't know if it is easy to adjust them right, because here in Holland they are quit strict with emission rules. I really like the whole thing and the sound is great. It still is a daily, so making the final gear shorter isn't an option. Other gears can, but I'll have to check it out. Actually the fuel pump is still working well I guess.
I agree with Ben S. Something like megasquirt aftermarket ECU would help achieve your custom bhp with cam setup. The megasquirt ECU is used for the turbo conversion on the abf.
If your re-mapper is cheap and produces good results, then there's no real need to change to an SEM ECU unless you go for ITBs. EssThree had good results from changing the inlet cam only, and a ported head will normally release a few horses. There's a limit to how far you can go with the cams and still pass emissions regs. I think that's why EssThree ended up just changing the inlet cam, and why Cat Cams are recommending a set which are fairly mild. Other options you could look at are a lighter flywheel, lighter wheels, and I realise it's a daily driver, but changing the final drive makes a big difference, because as well as improving the acceleration, it will allow your remapper to go for a more aggressive ignition map. How much mileage do you do, and do you spend much time cruising in top gear, or is it mostly in traffic? However, the further you go, the Euro spent for each horsepower gained goes up and up. I'd guess that a ported head and inlet cam, then another remap, will get close to 1000 Euro, and might get you another 10 bhp, or maybe a little bit more. I don't think fuel supply is an issue if it's all in good condition. No need to change fuel pump and regulator unless you can't get enough fuel through the injectors. A lot of this comes down to how much money you want to spend, and what you want to do with the car. Putting your engine in a Mk2 or Mk1 golf would make it a lot quicker!
Thanks for the advice guys. I don't feel the need to change my ECU at the moment, but I understand why it's a good option. My remapper is a well known guy and he produces really nice work. So once it's good after this stage, it will stay like that for a while. This is more a first try to overhaul my cylinder head, to clean my bay and to make everything tidy and nice looking. I have a couple of friends who had some nice results with their ABFs, so that triggered me to do some modifications as well. I know it's quite an expensive job, but I like my car and it will stay here for a while, if I don't drive it into pieces . A little bit of costs doesn't hurt that much. I already planned this to do. Modifying the final gear will do the trick. The next 20 weeks I will drive 300 miles a week, most of the high way. After that period I will finish school and maybe buy a daily. So the final gear change will be a good option, before we go modifying the ECU .
Oh, and I read Ess Three's topic about his ABF. That was very interesting. With only a single Schrick 268 inlet camshaft, and ported head, exhaust, 200 cells cat, etc... He managed to reach a 196,5bhp. He could have reached the 200bhp, with the 268 outlet camshaft, but then he couldn't pass the MOT anymore. Besides he lost quite a lot of torque in the lower rpm's. I know 200bhp is a lot, but I would be satisfied with a 185bhp and a slight gain in torque. A fresh engine and flexible handling is more worth to me .
Higher CWP ratio = lower final drive gearing. Less load on the engine, so less chance of pinking as the engine spins up quicker against less resistance.
Hmm..not sure about what you mean. The engine shouldn't pink if it's mapped properly. There is a large window between ideal ignition advance and detonation. As for the higher FD allowing more aggressive ignition advance.. When i think about it, it makes some sense but i would like to see some hard data for that. Maybe Toyotec can give his experienced opinion here
That's why Gurds Mk1 ABF got more power than normal on megasquirt. Light car. 4.25 FD. It's all discussed in that thread IIRC.
ABF cams are an advertised duration (@ 0.1mm lift) of ~252 CA ( or 219 CA at 1mm lift) with less lift and overlap than Cat Cams which are much more aggressive than stock but still achieve an acceptable idle. You can achieve 190bhp with 130lbft at banzai type rpm or you can achieve 180bhp with 160lbft at modest rpm between 4-7k assuming all measurement devices where correlated. Your choice if you choose to target numbers without understanding the 'feel' behind them. A shorter than stock FDR from 3.94 to 4.23 will help multiply the engine effort (torque profile) to allow good acceleration of the vehicle mass, but will increases NVH, cruise RPM and FE. So you will have balance this requirement for your needs. In EU countries I am aware replacing emission controlled devices such as the ECU or modifying engine hardware may be illegal. However ECU tuning the Digifant 3 is not hard if you already have a good tuner who knows what he is doing. The Golf 3 can be made a good fast road vehicle if you set them up properly. Essthree, Myself, vw_singh and Ben S have done a lot of research on these motors in our spare time and continue to develop them in our vehicles.
Hey there Toyotec, Nice to hear from you here. I know what you mean, and I understand the feeling behind it a bit. I just don't have any experience with other cam shafts. I had a friend with an ABF with 283/279 cams, from Catcams, but those didn't idle well. Kicking the clutch pedal down every corner you take, isn't the thing you want in any car. The cams just didn't fit the engine, because it wasn't remapped and fairly stock as well. I don't want to achieve as much as possible, if it costs me driveability. That's not what I'm looking for. I thought the 262/261 Cat Cams, with adjustable pulley, porting and polishing the head and healthy remap, were a proper choice.
Right, I haven't seen Gurds thread yet but my initial thought is correct. You won't gain any power by changing to a higher FD. Also, I thought again about ignition advance and that has nothing to do with gearing therefore it should be the same with either FD.
I dont know what difference the FDR has on a 02A to an 020 from a 8v but i have driven a ABF mk3 on both, and the 020 with the higher (numerical) FDR definately seemed a lot more lively for local driving, although both were standard, if you dont plan on doing a lot of motorway miles or good MPG i would go for higher FDR. not saying you should fit an 020 box as on a mk3 16v this would be a lot of work to fit a weaker box. but definately might be an idea to change the final drive on the o2a
