13:1 CR KR problems

Discussion in '16-valve' started by brutalmk2-16v, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    My Engine Build and Spec

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186028 :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  2. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    You have to decide what type of engine you want.

    The block is capable of 200+ bhp, as you have built it

    The head, cams and injection system are more usually seen delivering 150-180bhp.

    Given your budget, Mike_H's suggestion is a good solution so that you do not throw away the good work, and you can keep it ready for cam and injection upgrades later.
     
  3. danster Forum Addict

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    Cranking at 240psi accross all cylinders is pretty high.
    You state 268 / 276 cams. Which is inlet and exhaust?
    That spec is often used the other way round, ie. 276inlet / 268exhaust.
    If you up the inlet cam if it is 268 to 276 that would bleed off a bit more compression and still be just usable on k jet.
    Standalone would be the way to go to get more control of the fuel and ignition.
    What pistons are in the engine?
    I see your other thread relating to a 2.0 9A crank also? This will not work with your current pistons.
     
  4. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    I'm trying to make it step by step to 200whp.As far as i know is possible.The car will be used in 1/4mile racing in my country.

    So i need more agresive cams,throttle bodies and standalone ecu right?
    examples of cams? Maybe i will change my block also and use a 9A one with my internals to have the more stroke crank
     
  5. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Danster,

    268 is inlet and 276 is exhaust.That was the best pair for 1/4mile racing as collin at techtonics told me so i purchased that ones.

    the pistons are wossner.Why not work with these pistons? I know it will work as the pistons can be used in kr's or 9A's
     
  6. danster Forum Addict

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    If going to build another engine then the tall block ABF is worth considering if you get them, as the longer rods give better rod / crank angle.
     
  7. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    I will use 9A since if i want to use ABF i'll have to change from 144mm to 159mm rods which means +$$$ ;)
     
  8. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    The changing plug gaps is very concerning - personally I would investigate if the pistons are hitting the plugs first. The engine will not run proper with changing plug gaps and if the plugs are hitting the pistons, the marks will be detonation seeds.

    Each engine will have a max CR that it will run at - cylinder head design is a big dictator of this and cams affects it as more cam effectively lowers the CR. But you dont need bonkers cams to run 13:1 in my opinion....although it is getting close to being acceptable.

    Personally I would invest in a really good rolling road setup with someone who knows
    K-jet. Get some A/F measurements to see whats going on. Maybe try some 'Water Wetter' to improve heat dissipation from the combustion chambers. As you are going to be drag racing, maybe get some pukka race fuel....109 octane might solve it.....

    9A is just as good as ABF.

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  9. danster Forum Addict

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    As the 2.0 crank has a longer stroke than the 1.8 crank and the conrods in short blocks are the same length (144mm) the pistons will come out the block too far.
    Comp heights of 1.8 and 2.0 short block pistons are different. Even though you have bored the block of the 1.8 to use an 82.5mm piston it is different from the 9A piston.
     
  10. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    I'm sure that plugs do not hit the pistons Rob because there are no detonation seeds as you said.And i know this because i changed cylinder head and saw the pistons.

    I will have to buy a standalone wideband,as they told me,before to check that A/F mixture.

    What is water wetter? I was thinking to use 100octane fuel and water/methanol injection.Can do the job?

    Sure i will
     
  11. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    I see your point danster
     
  12. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    You dont need to buy a wideband - personally with this engine, I would go seek some professional setup advice, and that person will have a proper professional A/F ratio meter to shove up the tailpipe - get the tuning shop to run your car on their rolling road and they will tell you where the issues lie

    water wetter is a cooling system additive that improves the contact of water in the coolant with metal surfaces - it lowers engine temps in other words. I have read about it being used to try and reduce detonation by improving cooling in the cylinder head. Its cheap. It might help.

    http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=10
     
  13. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    allright thanks rob
     
  14. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Can someone explain to me the relationship between valve lift and CR ?

    Thank you in advance
     
  15. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    Its not really valve lift per-se, rather valve lift on the compression stroke.

    Hotter cams tend to leave the valve open for a while after the compression stroke starts - so some of the air in the cylinder bleeds away back out of the valve, effectively reducing the CR.

    http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

    This effect is (generally) increasingly reduced as cams get milder in design, so cars with milder cams can get away with higher static CRs and not destroy themselves.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  16. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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    Thank you for the link Rob.It was very helpful and cleared many things in my head.

    So,to see if i understood well..
    In my case with my specs,I make the calculations with the calculator using my cam's specs and if I find that the dynamic CR is between 7.5 to 8.5 means that i can stay with these cams?
     
  17. brutalmk2-16v Forum Member

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  18. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The principle remains that the cams are not matched to the compression ratio.

    Either put 2 head gaskets in and try again, or increase the budget and invesst in higher lift cams, and make any necessary piston => valve clearance modifications.

    Let us know how you get on - we are always interested in 16v tuning here :thumbup:
     
  19. prof Forum Addict

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    it's not lift Chris it's more duration/overlap it needs to reduce dynamic CR

    but I'm with RobT on this, take it to someone who knows about fuelling and k-jet especially,

    Vince is worth a go if not too far away
     
  20. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I think the OP is abroad, so probably not best placed for Stealth.
     

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