why is it that noone here likes the 2e head? what year is the 2e with the cold start valve? could i see a pic of the motor? as we don't have this motor in the USA, it is hard to find info on it here.i do know that the bottom is the same as our aba motor. thanks in advance
ABA is a X-flow isnt it? I think a mate of mine had an ABA head on a 2E block but dont quote me on that. People dont like the 2E as it doesnt match up to the K-jet or Digi systems in Mk1 or Mk2 cars easily. Rumour is that it doesnt flow well but no one has proved this yet.... sorry I cant answer the other Q's
Does anybody have any flow data or heads to compare for a PB and 2E head? I have the complete 2e with head sitting in the garage but will be swaping the heads over as I was told the pb is the one to use . i'll post pics tomorrow if you need more but here you can see some pics of the bare block. i have loads of pics before it was stripped too. dont know about the aba engine either...
what i don't get is if this head is so bad why does the 2e,3a,aba all make the same horse power?also i have been told the 2e head is nothing more than a 3a head with efi/digi.phill i need a fuel rail and a throttle body from that motor. also pics before the motor was stripped would be nice also
You are right the 2E/ADY head is the same casting as the 3A Audi 80 head. I have one of these engines complete with head and ADY inlet on my MK2 8v. The cam is the same 3ATDC 43ABDC 37BBDC 3ATDC, "0" overlap unit in all. Possible this was due to the engines at that time becoming "cleaner" and concerntrating on more low down torque. Most people do the same conversion to their MK2 but opt for the easier to install PB/PF style head on the 3A bottom. The ABA bottom is very similar to the 2E/ADY Euro short engine. Might be more of AGG code than the 2E as it has a 60-2 crankshaft wheel.
are you sure? I might be getting confused here as my 2E had big T shaped inlet ports as the injectors were in the manifold and not the head. I havent owned a 3A but from what I could see of the outside they looked more like a PB/DX/EV etc. I stand to be corrected of course. The reason I used one was because I couldnt be buggered to sort the throttle linkage, swap the TPS switch to WOT/Closed and all that crap. To my untrained eye it looked like it might flow better as the port went 'down' into the chamber more and had less of a bend like the older heads. As above, I hope to be corrected
I am positive. The 3A motor also has the CIS injectors mounted to the intake manifold and has the same "tear drop" shaped intake ports. At first I had a PB head on this motor and thought there was no intake manifold to face in the direction of the air box in a MK2. This was until I was shown by "anton28" from Stevens VW dismantlers that ADY and 2E motors had the same heads and both having EFi intake manifolds that could work on digifant applications. This is what I have running on my 3A engined 1990 8v. An ADY inlet manifold compete with plastic injector rail and injectors (similar to an ABF unit). I also replaced the TB with an ABF 65mm jobie. From "feel" there is much larger surge of torque from 1500revs to 4500. compared to the PB head which seemed to start from 2400-5000ish. After that the engine seems to run out of puff. In both cases the 1.8 digicrap system was used. I am hoping to extend this perfromance using a MSnS-e EMS. I also believe that the calibration of the OEM 1.8 EMS limited the potential of the higher 10.5: 1 2.0 unit in the both senarios (PB head or 3A head) The Idle Switch is custom mounted on the ABF TB. This of course will be binned when the MS system is installed.
you're right unknown, the injector rail plugs into the inlet manifold on the 2E I have aswell, cant remember about the size/shape of the inlet ports but will post loads of pics when I get home. managed to find some pics that I already have hosted but can post loads more when I get home if needs be. inlet mani with injectors removed. Look at that crud!! I can post more for you later showing the TB etc before it was stripped.
So Toyotec, you are running the 2E head and manifold setup and you think it's an improvement on the PB setup? mmm interesting, I may just get the 2E head flowed instead and use it. Will I need to relocate the throttle cable etc then?
the later MK3s have the same head I belive, but the inlet is very different indeed. Problem with the MK3 inlet is that you cant use any of the MK2 stuff, the injectors, inlet connections, throttle body etc are all different. You have to convert to the MK3 injection system too AFAIK, for a start the MK2 doesn't have a 5th injector and I belive the MK3 uses a throttle position sensor rather than idle/wide open switches. (yet another thing to go wrong, and they arn't cheap to replace either!). Basically its a lot of work without much if any gain. As said many people recon the 2e head doesn't flow as well, I don't know where this idea came from though... I'd say once they're flowed with the right cam you wont see much difference between the 2 setups, I cant imagine the heads are really that much different internally once you start to grind out the ports...
Well I am running a 3A full engine. I never got rid of the 3A head when I had the PB unit on. I dont have any fair hard evidence/or comparison to share with you on this as I made have made continous improvments on the car that may influenced the current state of tune. I do now that the car is far more torquey from low revs (from feel) but this may be due to the big ABF TB that was also ported. Before I put the ABF TB on, I was very disappointed with the weedy 2E TB. The car was flat ( as if it needed a secondary throttle). In hindsight I would stick the PB head back on it. Your calibration will still be out in the ECU if running a 2.0 bottom end.
I'm interested in using the ABF TB then with the PB head and 2E lump (what a mongrel!), is it a straight swap for the TB? re the ecu I'm runing a Blitzchip in the std Bosch unit but I'm sceptical about the increased fuelling they claim it gives.
My car runs a digifant system. The TPS is not used and the cold start injector (5th injector) is not used. Idle swtich is custom mounted and works fine. I have a modified hose from the ISCV to before the intake throttle Injectors are batched fired so MK2 Digi injector 2 pin plugs straight on. With right TB gains are much lower down torque due to taller roof intake ports. It can be done but you got to know what you are doing. But I agree with you not too sure if its worth it. If you run a 2l motor with a PB head your calibration will be still out. I found this out by attempting to optimise the digifant (shift dizzy or adjust AFM flap) to this new hardware Both PB and 3A heads and it pings slighty at low high loads low revs and sometimes on high revs/load even with tesco 99. Hence the reason for changing the management system so that I can make a custom map for my custom hardware.
PB intake carrys a rectangular 2 stage TB. ABF is square single unit. The ABF TB can not bolt on a PB manifold. Just about fits a ADY or 2E manifold ( you got to slot some holes on the TB)
Toyotec: I assume you made various other mods to the engine then, becasue my std MK2 8v digifant engine management works perfectly with just a 2e bottom end and no other modifications? Edit: IU've since fitted a blitzchip and it seems to work great, I also fixed lots of knackered vac hoses and put new injectors in so I can't say exactly how much better the blitzchip is! Its also had a new AFM, which might explain why you didn't get very good results I guess...
cheers Toyotec. I'm really looking for simplicity as this is my first attempt at an engine swap so i'll probably stick with the PB head and TB. Are there any other TB's even from other manufacturers that would work with the PB inlet that you know of? I was originally wanting the swap done for Feb/March but I've realized I'm in no rush and there are other things I am looking into like a diesel 95.5mm balanced crank to take it to 2042cc. I had no idea that my dad's friend owns a precision engineering works so can do machine work for me at mates rates. I may as well take advantage of it
well you copuld get a spare pb throttle body and port it edit: Audi bodies fit the MK1, I assume they'll also fit the PB, but you need to fit the 2 tbody switches to make em work.
No. My engine uses all STD VW parts including a STD Airbox and is a 3A unit. Perhaps the 2E bottom may have worked better the a digifant system. I used 3 AFMs when I was optimising. An E34 M30 unit ( which only worked in a small range), a new one on lone and even a 2E one. Made no difference. So far the car will get to 60 in 7.9secs and do a 15.9@89mph if driven properly but there is more in it. Megasquirt will allow me to achieve what I want and I can say bye bye to that weedy AFM. The same could have happend with a PB head. Just a little less torque occuring higher up the rev range.
