ABF to VR6 - Convince me!

ok Cant comment on the abf but after completing the mk2 VR6 I can say you will have no regrets also you will not have to upgrade your fuel pump or tank as the standard 8v is more than adequate. Also you dont need hydro clutch so you dont have to mess around with pedal boxes etc that is all optional. see my thread below
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207204

enter mk2 vr6 sleeper in youtube got a couple of vids up too

 

Thanks guys. I will be running hydraulic clutch set up and using a Corrado pedal box as it seems a waste to do all the work and then for me to be unhappy with the cable setup.

Rubjonny - my ABF is a 1996 N plate - is this the bigger roll bar size? I want to run a V5 gearbox with Mk4 shifter setup as I have read the V5 ratios make for better acceleration and obviously the MK4 shift is a lot better than Mk3.

 

Hi pal, Yes mine is 20mm and has a Yellow mark. Do you think this will be ok with the VR6? I am planning to remove the MK3 subframe and PAS setup this week so that I can refurb it all and fit it to the MK2.

 

Other than Pascal's race car, has an N/A VR6 ever been round Curby in under 30 seconds?

Weight distribution FTW. Megasquirt your ABF and buy a pair of fast road cams or a lower ratio 'box.

 

This is an option. Do we know exactly how much more a VR6 weighs? I have 40kg in my head from somewhere. Fast road cams i.e. Schrick 268 inlet? I could use my 020 8v box for lower ratios but am concerned regading longevity. I think the 16v is more in keeping with the true GTi.

Goood point, was planning on getting a Neuspeed one.

 

VR6 engines are about 40kg heavier I think, but sit further in front of the axle line, which makes it worse.

An 020 box with a bolted diff would be fine. If it's in a Mk2 on megasquirt, you want a pair of cams, as you don't have to worry about catalysts and lambda sensors.

 

GVK's vr6 did very well in it's previous guise, I reckon a 2.8 24v in stock form on stock ecu would be cheaper and faster than a modded squirted ABF...

cat pigeons etc

 

In a straight line yes against a STD MS'd ABF with a std gearbox. Modified 16v hardware is a different thing even in a straight line. And we not even talking about corners yet!
From what I saw on the ring trip, a well tuned 4 pot + well tuned chassis/suspension and tyres = win.

 

i went from carbed and cammed 2.0 16v (9a) to vr6 and dont regret it one bit! feels just as quick if not a bit quicker and the vr is standard for now handling wise theres doesnt seem much in it at the minute but ive not been on track

 

Thanks for the info Mike, didn't ess_three do a lot of testing regarding MS and Digi 3.2 with fast road cams and he found that the MS didn't make that big a difference? MS is definately something I am interested in but I have to bear in mind the cost of MS (200ish) and then cams on top (400 at best 2nd hand)

How much do you think this would cost? I have seen 24v engines from 1k - 2k including diff and box (not needed) What gearbox would I need for this?

Costs for me to mod the 16v:

Cams - 400 at best (2nd hand) otherwise we're looking at 600.
Ms - 250 approx (build kit)
Diff bolt kit for 020 - 80 (would rather use 020 if possible as I much prefer the gear change action)

Fixed Costs for modifying MK2 with either VR6 or ABF:

Lightened flywheel - 80 approx (Hotgolf)
Coilovers - 800 (Koni, already purchased)
Bushes etc - 350 (poly & oem, top mounts, ball joints etc)
Uprated ARB's - 350 (Eibach kit or poss Neuspeed at extra cost)
280mm Brakes - donor car
Widetrack kit donor car/eBay purchases (mk3 1.8 wishbones and driveshafts)

Is this hinting towards N7NDO's car Toyotec? By Modified 16v Hardware do you mean a MS'd 16v with cams etc? With either an ABF or VR6 fitted I would like to think the car will be very well set up with all new and uprated chassis components and brakes.

What made you change to the VR6 in particular?

 

If it was me I'd stick with the ABF, will look factory, can be made just as powerful, will be lighter, will still feel like a gti should, you'l have more room under the bonnet to work on it, will be simpler, you won't need power steering so you still have more feel, and best of all you already have everything to do it. So get out the now and get the ABF in!

 

look at GVKs & Normal Coals experiences. Both loved the VR6. Daz's VRbananamobile corrado used to do rather well on trackdays and never broke.

willber you'd also need to factor in the cost for Eddie to map your megasquirt and some RR time. No idea what this would cost

 

Very very true. This is definately the most sensible option!

Didn't know Eddie/Adlai/Toyo offered this service? I very much like the idea of making my car faster and better to drive by learning how to do it. i think Megasquirt is a more valuable way of learning rather than dropping the Vr6 straight in. It is more satisfying to know how I i have made my car faster using Megasquirt to alter the settings IMO.

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

Nope quite a few ABF'd engined MK2 have been done on MS, std and modified including that MK2 in the how to thread, which ended with a supercharger and then sold.
STD 2.8 24v and gearbox will have an advantage over a 2.0 4pot and std gearbox in a straight line due to at least 200+lbft of twist to play with from 3-6K revs. But a 4 pot with a bit of tweaking and correctly matched gearbox slotted in a well set up chassis, as would be the 24v VR6, could be very interesting and nimble.

 

ABF mk2s are a load of fun, it depends how you drive, whether you want low down torque or want to spin the engine. ABF and VR are good choices and make the mk2 into something special

 

Would you define an 8v 020 box with ARP diff bolt kit as a correctly matched gearbox?
From reading this thread I get the feeling that if I do want to put a V6 in the car then to get the most rewarding result I would need the 24v lump, however, this is something which I am not in the position to fund at the moment. So I think as a project to learn on the ABF with Megasquirt will be more valuable in that respect. I can always upgrade once I have found the limitations of the ABF.

I have a 2.0 Diesel PD Passat which I drive every day so I think having a rev happy 2.0 16v ABF to play with after work and at weekends would be good fun! I need to remind myself that I haven't driven that car in 6 months and even when I did it was in 8v guise and feeling rather tired and sorry for itself after 160k and 20 years! Any Mk2 is going to great to drive!

 

ABF + 3.9 FD and 7300rpm cut out ( will appropiate mapping) = WIN.
ABF imitations = how fast you need to go.