Hi all, After some advice as I'm unsure what direction to go in with my mk2's engine. Basicallly it's blown it's headgasket and needs a top end rebuild. I'm in a pro's vs cons dilemma. The car has it's original 8v lump which is about to tick over to 151k. It's a little tappety on startup (I think one of the hydraulic lifters is sticking) but it pulls very well through the rev range and has had numerous comments from the 2 garages I trust with it about how good it is. I had the cambelt and valve stem seals done last year which cured the smoking on startup. I've done regular oil changes on it and I believe the previous owners have looked after it too. Is it worth spending the money? Option one - Basically a top end rebuild. Replace the current headgasket, replace the lifters and do the waterpump too. Only problem I've got with this is that the garage bill will be around 400-500. I unfortunately do not have the time or knowledge tbh to do it myself. This option would mean I'd have the car back reasonably quickly as it's my daily. Option two - Source another 8v PB lump and swap them over. I could probably do this myself but am wary of buying another engine as it could be worse than my current one. Option three - Sorn it and ABF the car. Not sure how I'd do this, maybe myself, maybe a garage (I doubt I could afford that). Also the hassle of sourcing a good engine but perks in the respect that there would be more power. I don't really want to loose this car as the shell is good and have already done a lot of mechanical work on it myself. I avoid garages at all costs if I can help it but have never taken on any serious engine work before. Any help appreciated as I'm at a bit of a loss
Option one is by far the easiest but not necessarily the most cost effective. Option two is a more cost effective solution but for no real gain other than saving money, but at an expense of time and inconvenience if the car is your daily. Option three makes the most sense cost wise and will give you the best solution for your money. If it wasn't your daily I would choose option three. Which is what I have done!
Option 3 is tempting. Most bang for my buck as it were. Only thing with option 3 is I could end up still having to replace the bits that need doing on my current engine a few k's down the line. Bit of a gamble. I'd do my homework obviously so don't expect repeats of info in this thread, but are ABF's relatively easy to install? Whats a reasonable price for a good one? I have the bonus of my car being a 90 spec. Option 2, the more I think about it the less keen I am. Better the devil you know I reckon so would be better off sticking with my current lump.
If sticking with an 8v then option one is the easiest and safest bet. Expect to pay around 300 for an ABF engine with ancillaries, ECU and Loom. Conversion wise they are simple enough, I am part way through converting mine which is also a 90 spec Mk2. I have basic knowledge of car maintenance and am tackling it ok so far. As long as you do your research and are methodical in your approach there isnt a lot to do far wrong to be honest. Option 3 is the one to go for!!
Option 3 would be my choice but if its your daily I don't think its going to happen. How about modifying option 1 to just sourcing a new top end and bolting that on with a new head gasket (and could do cam belt at same time)? If it were me I'd be very reluctant to spend 500 on rebuilding an 8v engine.
i'd agree with the db, top end rebuild for simplicity's sake. you get to keep your existing management, all you have to do is bolt on the head. if your bottom end's ok this will get you back on the road more quickly.
All fair points, cheers for the advice. ABF prices are very reasonable but I think to be fair, hassle wise I just can't do it right now. In hindsight it's exactly what I'd like to do but I just don't have the time. However, as reluctant as I am to spend the cash on the current lump, as has been pointed out the car is my daily and I need it back asap... I guess if I found a good head I could possibly do the work myself to save some funds Would only be a weekends worth of work. What kind of prices do good condition heads go for?
Forgot to ask - any idea on how long piston rings generally last? I've heard the bottom ends are reasonably bullet proof...
i would go option 2, change the engine in a day means our back on the road monday morning. I did this, bought an engine complete for 90 quid, ran it with no issues for 9 months, took it out and sold it for 120. And no, didn't see it running! May of been lucky but bargains are out there. Or, for 500, then abf. A head could be bought for less than a ton if re-con was fairly recent. Did sell one a while back for less with new tappets etc, but end of the day, tappets not expensive and neither are the valve stem seals. Its really a case of how much you want to do yourself or how quickly you need the car back on the road?
50-100 for the head I would of thought. My friend sold his entire 8v lump with 110k on it with recently changed rocker cover gasket and cambelt and tensioner for 150.
Get a rebuilt head from someone like TSR for 300, you can easily unbolt the head and put a reconditioned one on if you can change an engine. Just follow the instructions on the haynes manual. Easily done in a day, or weekend if you have rusty manifold studs etc.
Thanks for all replies. I'm still weighing up my options A mate of mine has flagged this 8v engine to my attention, for sale for around 500 which I know is ABF money, but I guess it would fit in easily without any modifications. Now this is a fair bit of wonga but is it worth the extra for a lump I shouldn't have to worry about for a while? Would mean a power increase too. I'm not sure I can afford it to be honest but is this reasonable money? Spec is as follows: Replacement engine, has done approx 35Kmiles since it was bought in 2001 Recent new parts are identified Including replacement parts *New at original engine swop Distributor (New less than 3000 miles) Coil (replaced (New less than 3000 miles) Flywheel (*New) 60 Amp Alternators (ex 16V) (*New) Starter motor (*New) Oil cooler & pipes (new less than 3000 miles) Exhaust down pipe (*New) Cylinder head inlet and exhaust port polished (C&R) Piper: Camshaft, (new less than 3000 miles) Cam drive belt & venier pulley(*New) Hogged out exhaust manifold (*) (C&R) Internally polished inlet manifold (*) (C&R) Throttle body NGK three pronged plugs (New less than 3000 miles) Air flow meter K&N 751Induction air filter (*New) & pipe to throttle body Blue igniter HT leads (*New) Lakesport (C&R) new up rated front & rear engine mounts (still boxed) Oil changed approximately every 5 to 6 K miles at present using synthetic oil Larger sump (using approx 4∙5 litres per oil change (*New) )
That engine is pricey IMO. For that expenditure I'd be wanting a fair bit more go. ABF territory as you say. Does your car smoke at all (high rpm)?. If you are happy the bottom end and your ancillaries are sound then I'd just get a rebuilt head and throw it on as the cheap option. For a bit more you could get mr hillclimber to flow the head and go for a gs2h Kent cam. Would go lovely on a nice loose bottom end and you retain the cars originality.
Thanks for the advice. No the car doesn't smoke heavily on acceleration or high revs that I've noticed. It used to throw loads out on startup but since having the stem seals replaced that has long gone. It does use a bit of oil but to be honest that could be from driving around with a headgasket weap for a while!
Depends how you look at it, if you add up the cost of the individual components then it's cheap. You may well be able to buy an ABF for that much cash, but i can assure you you'll spend way more finishing the conversion off. besides, something has to be said for keeping the intended engine in the car.
For an 8v engine 500 sounds expensive. However for an ABF with the replacement parts that the 8v has you would be looking at more money. If i were in your position i'd get the existing engine re-conditioned or drop a new 8v in. This is the easiest solution. I found when converting mine to an ABF you always end up doing a bit more here, a bit more there and before you know it the car has been off the road longer than you intended. It's easy for people to say 'drop and ABF in' or whatever but in reality some of us just arent that mechnically inclined and it isnt quite that simple.
Cheers for all replies, advice taken on board. As much as I want to spend the funds elsewhere, Willber you are right, I think I'm going to have to sort my current engine out now and save the power mods/abf for a later date. Annoying but true. It's been a fortnight now and I've still not made a decision I'm putting together a parts list - does anyone have opinions on what I should go genuine on? Genuine Waterpump Expansion tank and cap Filter G12 Synta 10/40 Non genuine Headgasket kit (VWspares - Elring) Headbolts x10 (Febi) Cam followers (Febi) (If I rebuild current head) Valve cover gasket (Febi) Other than fluids, anything else I should need? Stem seals and cambelt already been done.
Why isn't swapping just the head an option? For peace of mind you could send it to the Shed to be rebuilt and modded for under 300 which would give you a bit of oomph.
That is still an option, its just finding a good one locally and knowing it's a good un. Had one lined up but it's gone quiet.
