Are G60 arches wider just for snowchains?

yeah sorry guy...talking shop.....

Nah it's not specifically wider. it's lower. I reckon this effectively makes it slightly wider because of the wishbone angle, but this isn't the main thing.

The lower clearance means snowchains would probably catch on std mk2 wings on full lock, full suspension compression. The wings are therefore cut away. also, the plastic trim has to fit outside this snowchain zone (which is different to a 16v because of the additional 10mm or so suspension lowering) but still has to have a nice tidy edge around the wheel. I think that's why they're wider.

phew. enough already!


Edited by: darnold4

 

Y9ou do realise a flaw with your argument.........

you can raise and lower the subframe all you want, the height of the wheel in the arch will stay the same. You could take 20mm spacers, fit them between the standard subframe and the chassis and the wheel woudl remian in the same position.

Do the math, the change in the track from the change in the angle of the wishbone is minimal

 

ok......here we go......

first of all I don't mean that the subframe in a G60 is lower, but that the front ride height is lower. The standard ride height on a G60 is about 10mm lower than a 16v due to revised upper spring cups, I believe.

If the subframe is in the same place as a 16v, this means that the wishbones are slightly flatter and through the nature of the geometry this pushes the wheels SLIGHTLY further apart, probably.

But I agree that the track is probably not significantly wider than a 16v. but that was a secondary point really.

We are all agreed that the arches are wider, without significantly wider track, causing the odd under-wheeled look of a factory G60.

However, the main point I was getting at is that the revised spring cups bring the snowchain clearance zone further up into the wing, hence the need for steel to be cut-away. If the snowchain is coming up far enough to require the steel to be cut-away, it will have an effect on the shape of the plastic trim that's immediately on the other side of the steel; if the steel is cut away to clear the snowchain envelope, than the plastic arch is shaped to go around that envelope as it pokes through the hole in the steel. that's why I reckon they are so big.

If there was no risk of the snowchain hitting the steel, then A) G60s would have just had mk2 wings and B) probably would have kept normal GTI arch trims.

The rear is another story. I think that when they reshaped the front trims to go around the snowchain envelope, they realised it then looked unbalanced with standard GTI trims at the rear, hence "they" were forced from a purely aesthetic point of view to make the rear arches wider too. It is purely aesthetic, as the rear suspension on a G60 is identical to a late 16v (except the AR bar), so wouldn't require a different snowchain clearance to the 16v which has a similar rolling diameter and width of tyre.

Mind you, this is all speculation................


However, I don't know if any of this applies to the G60 syncro and limited..... do they use 2wd G60 arches and trims? presumably their suspension has more in common with the rallye than the 2wd G60....dunno.

are we finished yet? I'm worn out after all that!

EDIT:

ONE MORE THING! with respect, anyone who says "Do the math" watches far too much american TV. It really is cringeworthy. Like taking the tone of your voice upwards at the end of a sentence when it's NOT A QUESTION, or moving your head from side to side and saying "you go girl", or whooping instead of clapping!
Edited by: darnold4

 

Ah, the way you worded it above implies a difference with the subframe

 

ok fair dos, after reading my reply above perhaps it was a bit misleading

BTW Im aloud to say fair dos because I'm a softie southerner......

 

Looks like G60 arches to me if I am not mistaken.

 

ok fair enough I've looked at the brochure again and the rear one definitely loooks like a typical massively wideG60 arch.....but doesn't that front one look a bit small to you?

maybe it's just the angle of the shot; and the fact that there's a bit of "right hand down" on the front wheel helps it visually fill the arch a bit more.

OK I'll eat my hat.....

that's the same pic as in my brochure, although it looks a bit squashed on my screen.....
Edited by: darnold4

 

F*cking rotate Sidney I see what you mean, it's beyond hideous especially at the rear.

 

on my jetta i ran g60 fronts and standard rears, and to be honest no one noticed and it still looked fine.
but on the now chain theory, i would say that had vw realised this was a problem on the g60 that was slightly lower they would have changed the rest of the range anyway, because 1 its cheaper to manufacture the same parts for everything and 2 when other modles were fully laiden with petrl passangers and shopping the car would sag down to similar heights anyway.

personally i would saay it was simply a styling issue

who would buy a g60 over a 16v if you couldnt tell they were any different?

ok me too but you get the idea

i think they basically redesigned the arches for the g60 so it would look wider and spotier than a GTI while doing this and making new moulds they thought up a better way of attaching the arches to the car the cut holes way aswell as the rivets, they also redesigned the wing a little possibly for cheapness of building but because the moulds for the other ranges were already built running etc, there was no need ot change them. so they became specific to the g60.

i think had they had a big advantage over clearence or another issue than the way they were done standard then the other ranges would have benefited also, but because it was purly a cosmetic reason it stayed specific, like the gti grills on the mk5 no reason for them to be different appart from a styling point of view and to make the car stand out from the other cars in the range

hope that makes sense

 

Not if the bumpstops allow the same suspension travel, but closer to the body which I suspect they do with the revised spring cups.

I would agree, but, and it's a big "but," the fact they went to so much effort to change not just the arch trim, but the steel wing AND the plastic wheelarch liner says to me there was something other than styling involved.

That's a LOT of investment on what is a relatively low volume model..........

Also, I've seen snowchain envelopes many times before, and you'd be surprised at how big they are compared to the tyre....once the full range of steering and suspension movement is accounted for.

If it were just for the sake of styling they could have VERY easily designed a wider arch which fitted perfectly on a standard mk2 wing, and used the standard wheelarch liner. The ONLY possible reason for all these parts to change, and not just the trim, is for clearance. I don't think VAG would change all that stuff unless they absolutely HAD to.

Why didn't they re-design the rear arch panel too?

Because the suspension is not lower, and therefore doesn't generate a different snowchain envelope.


can we agree to disagree?
Edited by: darnold4

 

I have it on good authority that G60 subframes are a full 10mm wider than standard.

 

Well would that not mean differences in driveshafts then??

Ive got a G60 spec subframe up the road, shall i go measure it....

 

If you would be so kind.

 

Try putting front G60 arches on the back! Then fit some proper wheels! Thats probably what i'm going to be doing 15 x 9 with a -5mm offset, its going to be tight!

 

come on... its a bit of plastic!! how can it be because of the snow chains!!! if you remove the G60, and insert the regular, in the same mounting points, how can it be...

But, either way, if you don't want your G60 ones, you can send them to me! I will send you a fresh brand new standard ones!

Steve B, do you run side skirts!?

 

Hidro - the factory G60 wings are different

 

Why are the G60 top mounts different?

 

I *believe* the G60 top mounts lower the front suspension by approx 10mm, by moving the whole strut 10mm further up into the arch.


this is why they move the wheel/snowchain envelope CLOSER to the steel arch, hence the steel arch being cut away, and hence the requirement for a different plastic trim.

I think.......

 

I know they are, but the only diference, is a litle cut on the wing! and that, is by no means enough for whell chains

 

Nope, they are simply a passat part, which will likely jus be slightly uprated due to the heavier weight of the passat. They DO NOT lower the car