Deck Height of Early 1.6 GTI Block

I would be very interested in some more details of this block too, Romain. If you can get any pictures of what to look out for that would help greatly in a search.

 

I've only just read this thread, i'm pretty sure that when I checked the code on my 1.6GTI block there is a 'H' stamped on it. I'll check again tonight.

 

EG compr. height = 40,7 mm , dish 8.3 mm , CR 9,5/1

 

finally been able to upload the scan I had
here is the difference between a 1.6 block and a H block



and here is my H block seen from the inside havent work the side for the bigger crank and bigger rods yet



and by the way neal if you still look for an H block there is one for sale on the french forum
let me know

 

Looking at the lugs on the rear of the block, the ones in the centre ie to the right of "1.6" and "H", it appears they are shorter on the H block, ie the wall has been cast further outwards. The lugs would have to be in the same place, since those are the mountings for the longditudinal installations.

It's very subtle though. Anyone agree? It's the top centre two I'm mainly looking at.

 

Yes, very slightly. Presumably more clearance for a longer stroke crank. Maybe this is because of the 86.4mm stroke used in the 1715cc engine unlike the 80mm in the 1588cc EG.

I think the early diesels I mentioned earlier with 1.6 mech tappet head used a smaller bore and longer stroke to make the same capacity.
My two 1.6 diesels are the later type and have the hydro head with the later head gasket style, and coolant outlet off the head between 3 and 4 unlike the earlier engines with it between 2 and 3.

 

Romain, forgive me, I recognised the Oettinger dry sump you posted and realised where the pictures were from. I've done some larger scans so we can have a better look at these blocks.

Here's the EG block, and the main difference between it and the H-block is circled:



And here's the H-block, so we can see the lower crank case wall has been extended outwards to allow for that greater crank throw:



Edit and another from a French site:



And here's the DX, with the charactertistics of the H block, but with further developments higher up:



Fascinating and a great find Romain


And just to prove that picture of a DX stacks up with reality, here's a DX:



What the DX block proves is the H-block was a classic iteration of the EA827, whereby the features of the EG block were then adopted and passed down the line.

This is seen in various ways subsequently, 16v, ACE touring car, 2E, ABF and other related blocks, tall or short, even 20v AEB.

Here's a 16v KR:



And then when they needed an even bigger stroke, they just opened up the skirt some more? Two litre block, 6A:



This engine is like a Porsche 911 ! Volkswagen just never threw the design away.

 

That first pic of the DX block capturing the cylinder head face also shows the extra oil drain found in between cylinders 1 & 2 on the later 1595 and 1781cc engines.

 

No worries chris
I was expecting someone will have this book
To be fair I really struggled to upload those scans
So I am glad you took over

Danster I don't know about the early diesel blocks but you might be right
Now the question is if the diesel had longer stroke for sure one of the tuners would have used it
So either 86.4 / 90.5 / 94.5
I got to do some research

What I know is that the 1.6 used the diesel rods and those are renown to be bullet proof

 

I will have a route around and find out what I can.

The GTD forum may be an excellent place to have a look in. There is a French and English section. Look in the IDI section.
The 1.6 diesel engines varied with the early mechanical tappet (using single oil drain like the petrol EG), and then the later hydraulic tappet engines (using the extra oil drain between 1 & 2 like the later DX).
There are various threads on folks converting between the two types of head and blocks. I am sure all the bore and stroke dimensions will be there too.

 

USA-sourced 1.6 diesel block pic - H-block type rear skirt design:



Single oil drain....



It looks pretty close to an H-block to me.

The block code appears to be 053 103 021 D 011, either that or an 055 prefix, which is completely out of synch with what I'd expect for an early block!

 

Golf 1 diesel engines were :

CK 76.5 x 80.0 mm 1471 cc 08/76 - 07/80
CR 76.5 x 86.4 mm 1588 cc 08/80 - 07/82
JK 76.5 x 86.4 mm 1588 cc 08/82 - 07 /84
CY 76.5 x 86.4 mm 1588 cc 08/81 - 07 /84

Source: www.doppel-wobber.de

 

76mm bore, just what I mentioned earlier on in the thread. Meaning they needed a longer stroke to get capacity back up to 1.6.

 

Any idea on the bore/stroke Chris?.. us only or euro/uk models too?

I'd imagine a forged longish stroke crank?

 

See HPR's post 32 above.

 

Well the diesel block have simillar shape as the H block
But I don't think they will have more room for a bigger bore then the H block
From 76.5 to 83 (maximum bore on the H block that will make
The original cylinder wall really beefy

Now the disapointing bit is that the diesel crank was 86.4mm
like an 1.8 gti
So oettinger were making their very own cranks 90.5mm 94.5mm and 99 or 100mm
At the time
Then came the diesel crank 95.5mm much later

 

HPR shows 86.4 cranks in all 1.6 diesels. So this explains that block design.

But here's some craziness from the GMP Performance resto thread:





USA 1.7 block, which means it's the Chrysler Omni / Horizon block.

The design on that initially looks like EG, but I think that crankcase wall is a fraction further out.

Dimensions previously given...

 

I checked my 1.6 GTI's block last night as I had it on the 4 post lift after work and it is an 'H' (EG code on the front, H cast on the back).
So the conclusion seems to be that the H is OK to be bored out up to 83 maximum? There are not many pistons out there these days for these (136mm rods, 80mm crank and Heron head) other than 81mm Woessner 11.6:1 jobs which is a bit too high comp for comfort on the original fuel & spark setup.
Even harder to find are pistons for use with an 86.4mm crank. Then there is the issue of head gaskets. The 1.6 head needs a different gasket from the 1.8. The 1.6 gasket is 81. Ideas or leads anyone or am I barking up the wrong block?!

 

Hi chopperoli

Head gasket is not an issue the oettinger gasket was up to 83 mm bore I am looking in to that myself
Yes you could bore it to 83 but I would stick to 82.75 or 82.5 leave some room for rebuild

The 136 rods also have a really chunky piston pins

I am looking into longer rods group buy??

You could if you want fit the all piston rods crank of a 1.8 but you still have to play with the pistons

You could do it it s depend if you are ready to spend more money than putting a KR or anything allready bigger

I chose to do it but I got the oettinger engine

 

The reasons i'm not putting a KR etc in there is I want to keep more or less the original EG engine, albeit pushed to its best (road going) potential. I'm doing it bit by bit. Already got a nice big valve heron head on there. What's this oettinger head gasket then? Is it thinner as well? and Definitely For the 1.6?