Isaac - 1992 MK2 Golf GTI 8v...

Great... odd that M seems hard to get new, though looks like some alternatives will do fine, cheers.

 

Manual cable turned up this afternoon and now fitted.

Definitely a much better / firmer pedal feel and worth while doing for that alone.

Engine off gear selection is if anything even more slick than I'd it honed down to last night.

Engine on gear change vastly improved (insofar as you can now actually get them) but still really reluctant to go in, plus reverse continues to crunch as badly as before.

Tweaked all the linkage alignment / eccentric yet again (and again, and again), some times it got worse, but never really got any better either.

Was at least able to drive the car out of the garage, it's first time in natural light for maybe 12 years.

Went around the house and up into 2nd... all good so still leaning towards thinking its an engagement / disengagement issue as opposed to slippage or similar.

I'd put on a MK3 weighted shift rod, replaced that back to the original as believe it or not it's actually a fraction longer!

Might just be me imagining things but going into reverse, though still bad, wasn't just as bad with the standard rod.

Manual cable is set at it's very max. travel... unwinding it any further causes the adjustment tube to come out of the threads but as the clutch wears and the cable needs tightening, that'll not matter as more and more thread will be wound on.

Drain the oil / inspect the bearing / finger tomorrow... all good fun!

 

I'm with John on that, cable shouldn't be at the end of the adjustment.

You hardly have a damaged pedal, or section of bulkhead, where the cable is mounted?

 

The manual cable has a thick rubber piece (18) that slots into the hole of the gearbox housing and the cable passes through.

I don't have the rubber washer (17), it seems quite thick, would losing that depth have an impact on other measurements do you think?

Don't know if it's intentional or not but the rubber piece with this cable is roughly 12mm deep, I've maybe wrongly assumed that spaces the adjustment wheel the required distance from the housing for you?

Anyhow, because that rubber piece partly sits up inside the adjustment wheel it loses a few mm of the gap, so I've re-done it this AM to get the full 12mm from the underside of the rim of the adjustment wheel to housing. Creates quite a bit of slack in the cable.

Makes no difference to change quality but causes the pedal to be much softer / less resistance to foot pressure plus there's now a distinct step in movement at its middle to top of travel.

I think that's caused by the pressure spring mechanism (22,23,24) not having enough resistance when moving through it's arc and coincides with its tipping point?

When there's less slack in the cable the spring mechanism seems to work perfectly / pedal travel is nicely weighted and linear.

No bulkhead damage and all the other parts of the pedal mechanism I can see from underneath don't seem damaged / missing etc.

Thanks all for the input, this is a learning curve for me and any thoughts, hints or tips are always appreciated.

 

I replaced my automatic adjustment cable with a manual one, with zero issues. So I'm a bit puzzled as to what is going on with yours.

 

You and me both!

Looking like something more serious unfortunately.

Going to have a look at the bearing / finger this AM, in a roundabout way almost hoping I find the problem there, might mean the box doesn't have to come out again.

 

Had a look at the finger after freeing the arm to let it swing right out.

Was able to remove the release bearing and withdraw the rod too.

Finger looks 100% OK, inasfar as it can be seen in situ., will look into removing it entirely for a proper inspection.

Release bearing was new (Sachs) and still looks it, was kind of hoping it'd collapsed!

The rod is another story though... look at its tip in the second image below, compared to the photo in an earlier post of it before installation, what would it be like after 1000's of miles?

Both ends have also become a little rough now, if you pull them across some fabric it'll catch.

Measured it and definitely worn down, now ever so slightly shorter than the 79K original.

The old one's now back in.

If I hadn't set the new one down on a table and it begin to roll I might not have picked up on it not being true either.

It will rock from side to side and if pushed roll in stages as if it's not entirely straight. Can't say if it has bent in use or was always like that!

Original is still as straight as a die.

Going to walk away from this for a day or two, to look at it with fresh eyes.

 

Literally got the finger out today and unfortunately doesn't seem to be the cause of the problem, easy fix had it been.

Image at end is of a new (claimed genuine VW) one, indicates to me there's next to no wear on my existing one.

Photo'd mine up close and no evidence of cracks etc., particularly at the supposed weak spot.

Most if not all of the gear linkage / engine / gearbox mounts, steering rack and more, etc. etc. has been out at some point.

Is it even remotely possible something (or a combination of things) have been put back misaligned, even slightly and would cause clutch disengagement problems either directly or otherwise?

There seems to be a certain amount of play in most things when you're fitting them, could they add up to a bigger issue or are things being slightly imprecise just the nature of how MK2's are and not usually an issue?

Not talking worn out or poorly fitting parts, just correct bits not being intended to be precision engineered.

No pun intended but clutching at straws, in hope box doesn't need to come out again.

The only thing worse than having to do that would be discovering I didn't really need to.

 

Incorrect disc?

I presume the disc slides freely on the splines?

 

Just gone back and double checked, you've got me wondering, though at the time of fitting everything went together perfectly / no hic-ups or having to persuade stuff to go on.

It was a Sachs kit 3000 082 003 that contained the clutch, pressure and release plates plus clamp ring and bolts.

Clutch plate on it's own is 1862 518 343

Checked ZF's web catalogue and all the above are as far as I can see 100% confirmed as listed for the car.

Didn't have the old disc out when ordering, but now that I know it's VW 027 141 032 D that is also confirmed as cross referencing to the Sachs one.

Measured the old clutch plate and specs. and they match the one now in too - 210mm / 24 teeth and if the hub profile measurement they quote refers to the splined openings diameter and length... Sachs is listed as 18.3 x 20.4 to 24mm and the old VW comes in at 18.3 x 24mm.

That's the only anomally I can see, Sachs mention 20.4 to 24mm and the old VW was 24mm.

I know that reads as being within tolerances, but why do Sachs even quote it, must have some relevance in certain circumstances?

The engagement / disengagement of the clutch plate I'm convinced now is the issue, and I don't think there's very much that's causing it either, it's almost working... the 3.6mm extra refers to the part that spaces the plate from the bell housing / push rod I believe, so it's arguably the most relevant distance as far as my problem goes?

Might 3.6mm be enough to be doing it?

https://aftermarket.zf.com/en/after...=14,22,32,35,68,126,161,294,8888&countryID=GB

 

Autodoc give my VW number as being equivalent the Sach one...

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/sachs/784386

 

Just to distract you... This is the (shallower) lever arm rubber that came with the new manually adjustable clutch cable, against the original deeper VW one... quite a difference.

I kept the original on when fitting, will try the new one when all's back together in case it increases the amount of adjustment and means it's not set at it's end of travel as before.

 

At the bottom of one of BrokeVW's pages there's a paragraph or two about him measuring flywheel / clutch distances for someone having disengagement problems.

Long story, short 82mm seems to be the correct distance from the side of the block to the end of the clutch plates splined collar, where it slides over the gearbox input shaft.

I can just about see the end of the splined collar via the timing hole.

Didn't want to subconsciously influence myself by measuring it first, but marked the point I thought it matched on the bell housing, did it several times using a straight rod down and kept getting the same spot.

Comes in at 82mm exactly!

The detent bolt on the selector housing will be the later 'improved' version on my age of box.

Appears they can fail / break up. Can I remove / reinstall it, just to inspect without upsetting the internals and then causing more grief by having to take out other parts of the selector mechanism to reset whatever it is I've disturbed?

 

Have an old Bosch endoscope, crude by todays standards. Does take a memory card, but none to hand so this is a photo of it's screen... apologies in advance for the crappy quality.

It's taken from the front of the engine via the bell housings timing inspection hole to help you get orientated.

Thats the clutch plates splined collar on the left as it goes over the splined input shaft of the gear box on the right, tried marking it out.

Question is... does the clutch plates collar move back and forth (along the path of the yellow line) as you engage / disengage the clutch?

 

Seem to have ruled all else out (based on my very limited knowledge / experience and reading reams of stuff) which leaves me with the likelihood it's a disengagement issue.

Very useful Sachs site here - https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sa...ips/clutch-systems/clutch-does-not-disengage/

which seems to cover the not so serious, up to the other end of the scale.

The reason I asked about the movement in the last post was that I don't appear to have any when the clutch is applied / released... if there should be some then one of the possible causes is binding of the clutch plate to the input shaft.

Did follow all the Bentley instructions to the letter, used a centering tool / used the correct lube etc. etc., but clearly not well enough!

Did say it was a big learning curve for me, just disappointing to be so close to getting the car going after 12 odd years to then trip up at literally the last hurdle.

 

There will be very little movement of the disc.

 

Cheers, have an engine support beam on order, not what I wanted but have to accept the box'll have to come out to properly get to the bottom of this... realise you can cobble up something of your own, but it'll prove useful again with the other cars.

Took the detent out and it's all OK, probably the original like a lot of the other stuff I'm finding but appears to be in perfect condition.

 

On a side note... daughter has had a Citigo for 3 odd years now.

I look after it for her and it's uncanny the similarities between it and the MK2... dimensions, wheel/tyre size and much more fundamental things like the rear beam lay out.

Anyhow, was underneath it today and noticed it too has front 'stubs', only they have the little plastic caps you see below to plug them.

Piccy is them snaffled and now on the MK2.

The MK2 has had one of the stubs replaced recently, used one got from Heritage. It has a round hole and not the oval of the original but you've guessed it... the Skoda bung fits it perfectly. Will also fit the other sides oval too, just a slightly more loose fit.

Usual extortionate prices on eBay, else where seems to be more realistic and may even turn out to be cheaper from a main dealer.