Roll cage installation guide - illustrated to help with MSA compliance

Discussion in 'Track Prep & Tech' started by A.N. Other, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Close as you like to the B-pillar IMO - stiffens the shell yet more. Or is it actually on the roof tin?

    Possibly too high then by the sounds, since even jacking up the sill could press the cage against the roof if it flexes a tad.

    I might merge this thread with the FAQ, btw.
     
  2. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12
    yes the roof Chris, seems that the rear of the cage is too high so the legs may need to be adapted as the driverside rear diagonal foot is flat on the arch, passenger side one is not far off so not just the main hoop (cannot lower that anymore without chopping), looks like cage legs were a fraction to long with the rear half of the cage.

    Think my only option is to take a bit off the bottom off the legs, clean up the foot plates then weld them fresh to the shortened legs.

    Just looking for opinions on this (i have a very good full time welder to do the job) & if i do this just how much gap to have between the main hoop & the roof (main hoop is nice & close to b-pillars so ok there Chris just the height).
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
  3. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Just keep it off the roof tin, but get it nice and high in the car. It keeps bars like the ones across the top of the door out of the way of heads, which is always good.

    Sounds like it all needs positioning on blocks of wood and with plenty of checking/rechecking to get the optimum position.

    IMO 1cm off the roof tin should be enough.
     
  4. GVK

    GVK Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Lincs.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
  5. 2dubnick Forum Junkie

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Worcester
    cheers GVK its still on my list of things to do, track car has taken a far back seat in my life at the moment[8(] but only so work on other dubs can take place:p

    I might actually have the temper to do this myself now, especialy as its something I do want to get practice with.
     
  6. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Bit of a thread shuffle done, with posts about roof tin moved across from 2dubnick's thread.

    Few more actual pics added into post 2, courtesy of Dclarke
     
  7. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12
    Going back to the backstays & the plate that is welded to the rear arch, which is the prefered option by the forum users:

    1. Weld the 3mm plate to the inside of the car only (then use washers or also a non welded plate on outside).

    2. Weld the 3mm plate just to the outside of car.

    3. Weld 3mm plates inside & outside.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  8. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    It's a fairly strong part of the car - do either or both.

    FWIW the pics on p1 show the plates being on the underside, whereas my Golf used to have a bolt in, and they were on the inside..

    Only my opinion - do not rely - but it feels right to have them on the inside.
     
  9. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12
    That's what i was thinking Chris & after taking a look at altern8's over the weekend his also looked good on the inside.

    On another note i redrilled my cage to take M10's & looks much better than M8's like mentioned.
     
  10. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12

    Any tips for me?

    [​IMG]

    Have marked the inner part of the bars here in yellow & need to work out the best angle.
     
  11. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    No probs - will do this later this eve I hope.
     
  12. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Door bars

    [​IMG]

    As an additional bit of info, the actual position of the door bar is crtitical to keeping MSA scrutineers happy. They basically want to see your hip protected from a side impact. One of the Golf GTI Championship competitors mentioned that he mounted the top of a single door bar quite high up, and a scrutineer felt that there was a sufficient gap below it. The solution was to weld another in, to create a criss-cross bar.

    Story here - posts 3, 4, 5 etc

    Clearly if you're putting in a single bar, it needs to be in the right place.

    Some more evidence here.

    I can't find anything more in the blue book on this though.

    Door bar options:

    "Drawing 9"

    [​IMG]

    Relevant door bar sub-diagrams within "Drawing 12"

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  13. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12
    funny how they have the single bar version (drawing 9) going horizontal when most people seem to have it going down diagonal.

    Reading what you say Chris & mentioned by Ian Carvell in the link above the best seems to be a line crossing at your pelvis height, just wondering if people have the lower end level with their leg or a bit higher for added strength....

    Will add some lines to my pic above:

    [​IMG]

    Edit: done...(Blue line)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  14. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Ignore the horizontal drawing - it can be tilted, as I found out when trying to get criss-cross door bars excluded from the GTI regs, to ring-fence cage costs. The horizontal-ness of the bar is variable!

    Generally you see them installed pointing downwards, probably to match the line of the occupant's legs.
     
  15. steve G Forum Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Likes Received:
    0
    i have read through this post and have found most of what i want to know,but as this is the 1st time me and my bro have fitted a cage i thought i better stick up a couple of pics to make sure before i weld the b piller supports in place

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    does this look ok or do i need to extend the L shaped plate that sits on the floor,
    i will be boxing the end in.
    what do you guys in the know think?
    cheers steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  16. fthaimike Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Likes Received:
    12
    I would, that seperate piece you have underneath, try to make it take up as much space as possible.

    But then again yours is different to my mk1, in that half of the foot is already resting on the sill.

    I had a similar problem with the mk1 in that the rear corner was no-where near flat & the type of cage (OMP) i had it came down onto the floor instead of using the whole sill.

    Only way i could do mine was make a plate like this:

    [​IMG]

    We welded the 1st plate along all the edges (including the slit i had to make in it for the floor bit to follow the curve.
    I then put the top piece over it, welded it to the sill then to the 1st plate (pic before any weding):
    [​IMG]

    Ended up like this (ends not capped off yet):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  17. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    Steve, as per Mike really. The issue could envisage is the knife-effect of the upper section pressing on the lower.

    I realise the floor shape isn't helpful, but a scrutineer would be jittery about a lower section supporting just half of the upper.
     
  18. James_mk2 Forum Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Farnham, Surrey
    Just a quick (possibly stupid) question, i picked up a rollcage yesterday and i'm planning on fitting the rollcage feet in this way. Using a 12cm x 12cm plate (possibly larger as the tube diameter seems to be almost that!) EDIT- rollcage diameter is 70mm what size bolts should i be using? Just as big as i can get without leaving the gap between bolt hole and edge of the plate?

    Also is using a bolt and locking nut inferior to a welded captive nut in any way? And is there a preference to having the bolt head above or below the floorpan? (i.e. which way up the bolt goes)

    Cheers

    James
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  19. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    394
    See start of post #2

    Bolts / studs - no difference, and no specified mounting orientation.
     
  20. James_mk2 Forum Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Farnham, Surrey
    ok, so just as hefty as i can find then?

    What is best to rustproof and seal the car around the bolt holes afterwards?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice